to be offended by this T-shirt?

[parklife1]

I saw a post on social media today. It was about two gay men becoming fathers of twins via surrogate. There was a picture of the two men in "DAD" T-shirts. The pregnant surrogate stood in between them with a T-shirt saying "NOT THE MOMMA".

I'm not even against surrogacy perse, but I found this picture offensive.

I understood why she was wearing it - she wanted to display that she doesn't want to have a mothering role in the children's life.

I still think it's a slap in the face of women, we go through so much during pregnancy and labour. Giving birth can be life-threatening, I lost 2.1 litres of blood during my first birth and 1 litre of blood during my second birth.

Many women have postpartum depression after birth and the hormones are on a roller-coaster.

My body will be forever marked by giving birth (stretch marks, C-section scar, mum tum).

To me this picture is just offensive, because it sort of portrays women and our bodies as a commodity.

AIBU?

@Collaborate One could argue that surrogacy is femphobic.

@MintIceCream1 Yeah because it's so easy to adopt 🙄you clearly know absolutely nothing of the adoption process. I had a colleague go through it and she got rejected for ridiculous reasons even though they already had a child and were amazing parents but both worked full time.

Anyway, the surrogate children in my post are very happy adored children with two brilliant parents.

People on this thread are disgusting.

I see nothing wrong with surrogacy. My former boss had two kids via surrogacy, as she was too old to have kids. Her and her partner were ridiculously wealthy and the two kids will have amazing lives and want for nothing. What's wrong with that?

@XelaM
So she wasn't that bothered about it when she was younger, and just uses her wealth to rent someone else's body to grow a baby for her? Not even fertility issues, you just didn't want to. Reminds me of that British couple who wrote to the news about their surrogate baby in Ukraine- anyone remember?

There are so many things that can go wrong in this kind of arrangement like child abandonment if it's not how they want it, I doubt they'd care if the mum had any health issues. Why would anyone think this is ok (beyond altruistic surrogacy)?

Buying babies is disgusting.

It's so entitled. I'm rich so I don't have to be bound by the laws of biology. I can just pay someone else if I'm too old. I don't think songs' ridiculously wealthy' to the anecdote serves them well.

There have been awful stories of babies born with a disability being abandoned by the so called 'commissioning' parents because what they wanted was a 'perfect' baby.

@Collaborate No, it does NOT seek to deny gay males the opportunity to have a family. Hello, ADOPTION???

Then advocate for it to be made easier to adopt.

Supporting human trafficking that is surrogacy is disgusting, and people like yourself should be ashamed to support such an abhorrent practice. You clearly aren't a feminist either.

Guessing they used a donor egg so she technically isn’t the Mother. It’s crass and not my taste but not offensive.

It absolutely shouldn't be made any easier to adopt. Current adoption procedures in the UK are designed to put the needs and interests of the child first, well above those of the potential adoptive parents. Given the trauma these children have already experienced, this is as it should be. A great many adoptions break down, which is awful for all concerned. There needs to be a lot more support for everyone in the process.

What isn't needed is a return to the days when almost anyone could adopt with minimal scrutiny first.

@TeaKlaxon Feminists have been against surrogacy since the Baby M case in 1986. That is from whence the anti-surrogacy laws in many countries come from. Read up on the Whitehead and Sterns. They were both HETEROSEXUAL married couples; one couple was a biochemist husband and a paediatrician wife, and the other a garbage man and a stay at home mum.

People turned against surrogacy due to that case. A case involving two heterosexual couples. So stow your homophobia bs. At least read about the Baby M case, that is responsible for the anti-surrogacy laws in many, many countries, before weaponising homophobia.

It is about baby-selling. As Whitehead's lawyer said in summation: it will always be the wife of the garbage man, who will bear the children for the rich doctor.

I listened to this interesting discussion on the ethics of surrogacy yesterday %3F

(Yes, it is a Christian source, although they only discuss the theology surrounding surrogacy and adoption in the last 10 mins or so)

I find it a bit off tbh.

It's like renting out your womb.

Giving birth is pretty horrific on the body. You do it because you have something amazing at the end. Or in these instances, money.

Regardless of what lies they want to tell. She is the mother. To that baby she is it's mummy. And it will be traumatised when ripped away

That's rubbish. Most threads on surrogacy are about heterosexual couples.

But lets say that your lie is correct, that it's mainly gay couples. Perhaps it's because the way they flaunt their determination to push the woman, the mother, out of the baby's life. It's because of their femphobia, their absolute hatred of women and their disregarding of the importance of the mother. That doesn't happen with heterosexual couples, you don't see them flaunting and boasting about it like you do with this couple. This couple is literally wearing their advertising of how little they respect women and our bodies.

People on this thread are disgusting? For raising legitimate concerns and issues? I’m slightly gobsmacked that you can reduce real world examples of suffering because of your own limited, second hand experience. By your logic I can dismiss all accounts of starvation because I’ve never starved and know no one who has. It’s preposterous.

I’m very glad that the example of surrogacy you’re aware of had a good outcome (although I note you have nothing to say about the surrogate and her mental/physical health or whether it was a sound financial decision for her) but your anecdote is tunnel visioned and fails to acknowledge there is more than one case of surrogacy in the world and they’re not all rainbows and lollipops, many on closer inspection have clear points where harm could have been prevented.

I’m sorry that your colleague was rejected for adoption but I can’t trust your assessment of what ‘ridiculous reasons’ might constitute. Adoption should be difficult and standards exceptionally high. Adoption involves many people tasked with ensuring the best possible placement for children; as it should do because we have enough evidence from history telling us what happens if we don’t have high standards. Even with high standards adoptions fail or cause the children/adoptive parents involved life long distress. Children awaiting adoption have their care handed over to the state and deserve the best the state can do for them.

The “disgusting” people on this thread are the ones who think that it’s ok to buy human beings

So you admit they just want 'perfect' kids. Only if it has no trauma, etc. Do you know how shallow, vain etc you making them sound? If they are not willing to have a less than perfect child that needs more 'work', then they should not be having ANY children at all!!

@MintIceCream1 do you have any idea about the level of needs adopted children often have? It’s not a case of wanting ‘perfect’ children, they don’t exist

Take a quick look at the NaTP Facebook page if you want to see the challenges parents of adoptive children often face, a post last week of a 6 year old getting the families dog to do very unsavoury things to her privates.

@LiSue The world is REGRESSING, it is not 'changing' for the better. And no, we won't 'get used to' the increased misogyny, you jump on the Modern Misogyny and handmaids tale bandwagon if you want, but modern feminists in the 21st century will fight against surrogacy. The vast overwhelming majority of women are against surrogacy. You are the one that is behind.

@VeryTrying22 Yes I do, as my closest friend growing up was adopted and grew up in a 'Home and Away' type foster family. Her adopted family fostered 31 children.

Children come with risk. There is no guarantees, this couple's children could face trauma later on. A lot of us didn't escape childhood without some trauma. It's part of life. You either want children, or you don't. No picking and choosing, and that is what your post is, full of excuses. 'Oh but they have trauma' is just another way of saying they want a perfect newborn baby. Pure, plain, clear and simple.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to wear a t-shirt saying "vessel" or "incubator"?

To add that removal from the mother at birth or in the months after is automatically traumatic for a baby. That’s unavoidable. It’s a reality for many births surrogate or not but it’s well recognised and why efforts are made to ensure mothers can bond with their babies if they’re separated even for a short period due to various reasons.

Thats before even thinking about later trauma if the resulting child struggles to process their origins. I can well imagine how it could be incredibly hurtful to see that photo in the OP of the woman who gestated and birthed you wearing that t-shirt. It’s a rejection of you. I’m not sure that would be soothed by knowing you had two parents who loved you completely. People grow up in all sorts of family units that are secure on the face of it but can still harbour deep feelings and ideas surrounding those who have remained on the periphery.

it’s a badly judged photo and raises the concern that none of the adults involved have researched or are even thinking about the child themselves who might not agree with them.

@Joessaysthankyou Angry about the exploitation of women and the selling of children? Damn, how dare we? We should know women's rights and children's rights are not important to misogynists like yourself who clearly don't care about womens rights or the rights of the child. You don't care at all, do you? You seem femphobic as well.
Yes, how very dare us women be 'angry' at injustice and exploitation.
Wow....

The question is, why aren't YOU angry? Do you really blame us?? ????

Why isn't everyone angry at this?

You've made your disdain for womens rights and children's rights more than apparent. Go back to whatever misogynistic/incel-enabling site you previously came from if women justifiably being angry at the mistreatment of women and children upsets your male sensibilities so much.

Best to Ignore people like @Joessaysthankyou. They'll keep mindlessly repeating the word 'homophobic' so they don't have to address any questions, they think if they accuse people of being homophobic, it will scare people away from voicing their opinions.