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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be offended by this T-shirt?

366 replies

parklife1 · 17/05/2022 12:29

I saw a post on social media today. It was about two gay men becoming fathers of twins via surrogate. There was a picture of the two men in "DAD" T-shirts. The pregnant surrogate stood in between them with a T-shirt saying "NOT THE MOMMA".

I'm not even against surrogacy perse, but I found this picture offensive.

I understood why she was wearing it - she wanted to display that she doesn't want to have a mothering role in the children's life.

I still think it's a slap in the face of women, we go through so much during pregnancy and labour. Giving birth can be life-threatening, I lost 2.1 litres of blood during my first birth and 1 litre of blood during my second birth.

Many women have postpartum depression after birth and the hormones are on a roller-coaster.

My body will be forever marked by giving birth (stretch marks, C-section scar, mum tum).

To me this picture is just offensive, because it sort of portrays women and our bodies as a commodity.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Giveaschitt · 17/05/2022 13:05

Elliania · 17/05/2022 13:02

Did it say in the article if she's one of the biological parents or if an egg donor was used? Because if the embryo was created from donor eggs & then implanted into the surrogate then she REALLY isn't the mother. I can't get worked up about it honestly, everyone is happy with it so it's none of my concern.

Everyone? What about the baby?

WildNights · 17/05/2022 13:06

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 17/05/2022 12:45

The two men should've been wearing t-shirts that say "I bought a human being"

You could say the same about anyone who's went through IVF or used a sperms donor.

Are those children created with the intention to remove them from the woman that birthed them, their mother? No. So you couldn’t say the same about them at all.

Whether egg/sperm donation is ethical is another point, personally I don’t think it is but it’s very different from a child being removed at birth from the person they have been carried by.

IVF often involves the egg and sperm of the parents that will bring the child up, so I don’t see any issue for the child there.

DappledShade · 17/05/2022 13:06

Why wouldn't the baby end up happy? It will be cherished and have two very loving parents.

BalloonsAndWhistles · 17/05/2022 13:06

Horrible. I hope that poor child never sees it. The ‘dads’ can do whatever they want but to bring their child into their attention seeking ideals is unfair. And, as for that woman, whether she likes it or not she is the mum.

Anniefrenchfry · 17/05/2022 13:08

myceliumama · 17/05/2022 12:52

Surrogacy is a horrific practice. It's all about the parents and nothing about the child. To intentionally create a baby with the express intent of removing it from its mother (regardless of genetic heritage) is barbaric .... so much so its illegal in other mammals. THEY can't be sold until weaned at 8 weeks. All that baby knows is the mothers voice, taste , movements and smell. It doesn't want anybody else and to sever that bond intentionally is monstrous.

Irs different though, because the pup or kitten etc isn’t being given to another dog or cat to parent. The pup or kitten is removed at eight weeks to have no animal parent ever again.

I actually don’t quite agree it’s barbaric, not any more than donor sperm or eggs etc is. In fact I’d argue donor eggs and sperm is worse, if the woman just provides the womb with no genetic material. With eggs and sperm, that’s your kid.

for me though, as long as the baby has parents who love and raise them right, I’m ok with surrogacy, particularly when it’s the parents own sperm and eggs used and the surrogate just effectively provides the womb.

I don’t find the t shirt offensive

SleeplessInEngland · 17/05/2022 13:09

Giveaschitt · 17/05/2022 13:05

Everyone? What about the baby?

Show quote history

The baby's ecsatic. It can't believe it's luck.

ElenaSt · 17/05/2022 13:09

Bloody awful is the nicest thing I can say!

Nothing is discreet anymore.

TeatimeGlitter · 17/05/2022 13:10

YANBU. It's the commodification of life and aggressive, objectifying patriarchy at its finest.

Hope the surrogate and baby go on to live happy lives, at least.

Anniefrenchfry · 17/05/2022 13:10

BalloonsAndWhistles · 17/05/2022 13:06

Horrible. I hope that poor child never sees it. The ‘dads’ can do whatever they want but to bring their child into their attention seeking ideals is unfair. And, as for that woman, whether she likes it or not she is the mum.

I think the person who’s eggs it is is the biological mother, not the person whose womb it was, if they are different people. If it’s her eggs and her womb then I agree she’s the biological mother, but the t shirt doesn’t say if it’s her eggs. In fact it could be argued it’s saying it’s not.

PutinIsAWarCriminal · 17/05/2022 13:11

In an ideal world there would be nothing wrong with surrogacy, but we all know the world isn't ideal. Everyone needs to watch the documentaries of the pregant surrogate women living 10 to a room in India.

calmlakes · 17/05/2022 13:13

Buying and selling newborn babies is not a good practice.
Human trafficking should always be illegal.

Sycamor · 17/05/2022 13:15

My kids are from egg donation IVF due to menopause at 28yrs old. Two incredibly generous women may be a genetic parent to my kids but I had the joy and stress of pregnancy and birth. I'm the mum.
There are lots of ways to having a happy family.

Velvian · 17/05/2022 13:15

To the baby, the woman that carried them is the mother surely? They have been hearing the mother's voice, heartbeat, home and family for the pregnancy.

luxxlisbon · 17/05/2022 13:16

Nope, someone else’s views on their pregnancy and birth experience doesn’t relate or invalidate mine.

I also disagree that surrogacy is barbaric. I know someone who had a child via surrogacy, with the surrogate being someone very close to them and everyone was happy with the arrangement and they all still have a lovely dynamic. That surrogate also never viewed herself as a mother to the child.

Collaborate · 17/05/2022 13:17

I find this whole thread quite homphobic actually.

SolasAnla · 17/05/2022 13:18

parklife1 · 17/05/2022 12:29

I saw a post on social media today. It was about two gay men becoming fathers of twins via surrogate. There was a picture of the two men in "DAD" T-shirts. The pregnant surrogate stood in between them with a T-shirt saying "NOT THE MOMMA".

I'm not even against surrogacy perse, but I found this picture offensive.

I understood why she was wearing it - she wanted to display that she doesn't want to have a mothering role in the children's life.

I still think it's a slap in the face of women, we go through so much during pregnancy and labour. Giving birth can be life-threatening, I lost 2.1 litres of blood during my first birth and 1 litre of blood during my second birth.

Many women have postpartum depression after birth and the hormones are on a roller-coaster.

My body will be forever marked by giving birth (stretch marks, C-section scar, mum tum).

To me this picture is just offensive, because it sort of portrays women and our bodies as a commodity.

AIBU?

The commodity is the child, the woman becomes the means of production.

The US abortion draft judgement has a section on the demand for babies given up for adoption or removed from parents adopted.

(Commercial) surrogacy is legal commissining and trading of a human child.

DockOTheBay · 17/05/2022 13:19

They leave puppies and kittens with their mothers for longer
This is interesting and I hadn't thought about it that way before.

I remember in Downton Abbey one of the sisters had a baby and gave them up for adoption, but she stayed with the baby for 8(?) Weeks to feed and wean them first. I remember thinking it was weird and would be so much harder to then give the baby up, and I'm sure it would be, but maybe its better for the baby.

RainbowBallOfDoom · 17/05/2022 13:19

i think you are being unreasonable.
Her body her choice.
You don’t have to do it if you don’t want to.

Joeblack066 · 17/05/2022 13:20

DappledShade · 17/05/2022 12:41

I think it is her choice and it seems the baby will have two loving parents. Do I find it funny or amusing? Not at all. I'm not offended by it though. I was adopted and feel that growing up with loving parents is much more important than how I got there.

This all the way.

ArcheryAnnie · 17/05/2022 13:21

Just to be clear, I don't see parenting about being a biological connection. The family I was born into was built by adoption, and the bonds I feel with my family have nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with, well, family.

My mum never erased the women who gave birth to her children. She remembered them at every single birthday, and ached for them. Her remembrance of these other women, who loved their babies (her babies) but were forced by circumstance to give them up, is still precious to me, long after my mum has gone.

But surrogacy is different from adoption. It is the commodification of birth, and manages the magic trick of simultaneously commodifying the women who give birth to the babies and erasing them entirely from the baby's life story. Nothing to see here! Just a rented womb!

If you are agnostic on the subject of surrogacy, just take a quick (and horrifying) peek into what has happened with the surrogacy babies due to be born to Ukranian women.

XelaM · 17/05/2022 13:23

This thread is mental. As I said, I know wonderful parents who had their kids via surrogacy as the mother was to old to get pregnant. Those kids are so loved and want for nothing growing up in a loving home to two (very wealthy) parents.

Franca123 · 17/05/2022 13:23

@Collaborate can you explain why you feel this thread is homophobic?

ArcheryAnnie · 17/05/2022 13:24

Why?

luxxlisbon · 17/05/2022 13:24

Giveaschitt · 17/05/2022 13:05

Everyone? What about the baby?

Show quote history

What is there to suggest the baby wouldn’t be happy? They have 2 loving parents who went to great lengths to have a child, I’m sure the child will cherished and loved, no reason to think it won’t be extremely happy.

Unless you think a child couldn’t be happy with two dads…

SolasAnla · 17/05/2022 13:24

DappledShade · 17/05/2022 13:06

Why wouldn't the baby end up happy? It will be cherished and have two very loving parents.

That is a assumption based on the beleif that parents are always good.

This in not always the case with birth parents and the Australian authorities had a dilema here:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8525191/amp/David-Farnell-sex-offender-accused-abandoning-baby-Gammy-Thailand-died.html