to be offended by this T-shirt?

[parklife1]

I saw a post on social media today. It was about two gay men becoming fathers of twins via surrogate. There was a picture of the two men in "DAD" T-shirts. The pregnant surrogate stood in between them with a T-shirt saying "NOT THE MOMMA".

I'm not even against surrogacy perse, but I found this picture offensive.

I understood why she was wearing it - she wanted to display that she doesn't want to have a mothering role in the children's life.

I still think it's a slap in the face of women, we go through so much during pregnancy and labour. Giving birth can be life-threatening, I lost 2.1 litres of blood during my first birth and 1 litre of blood during my second birth.

Many women have postpartum depression after birth and the hormones are on a roller-coaster.

My body will be forever marked by giving birth (stretch marks, C-section scar, mum tum).

To me this picture is just offensive, because it sort of portrays women and our bodies as a commodity.

AIBU?

Doesn't bother me at all. I don't find it offensive and see no issue with it.

... that "why" was to @Collaborate .

I find this whole thread quite homphobic actually. ha ha, really? Being anti human trafficking is now homophobic??

@XelaM you haven’t even referred to the surrogate -
that’s the point.

giving birth is an enormous physicAl and emotional process on a woman.

As I said, I know wonderful parents who had their kids via surrogacy as the mother was to old to get pregnant. Those kids are so loved and want for nothing growing up in a loving home to two (very wealthy) parents. did the woman who carried the babies have a real choice? Did she get the full expenses payment, or just the small percentage filtered down to her from the trafficer agency?

I also think the thread is mental, I have no issue with sperm, egg donation or surrogacy using someone else’s eggs.( I’m not ok with it if it’s th surrogates eggs, for me that is selling a baby)

but for me it has brought a lot of wonderful people into thr world who would never have existed otherwise, who are part of loving families who were unable to have their own child and I have no negative judgement on it.

I don’t understand rhis forum where donating your own generic material, eggs or sperm is ok, and that is actually then your biological child but going through the pregnancy with someone else’s child is apparently not.

being a mother is a lot more than the actual pregnancy.

Yes I've given birth thank you. It's not some kind of major achievement. Some women medically can't give birth. Doesn't make them any less deserving.

the surrogate volunteered her services. No one forced her to go through with it (twice).

Depends on your view point and if they used donor eggs. Does carrying a baby not genetically related to you make you it's mother? I'd argue that whilst it's a gruelling process, it very much doesn't. Others would disagree. I'm not offended by the t shirt, neither was the woman wearing it.

What do you mean "did she have a real choice"? They certainly didn't force it on her. It was in the USA and I'm sure they paid her well. It's a very wealthy couple

🙄

Being more concerned about the mother and child than anyone’s entitled attitude to have a child, and believing its wrong to be able to buy babies is not homophobic. I disagree with surrogacy for any couple regardless of their sexuality.

No, you couldn't.

I suppose "I'm exploiting a woman!", "I'm buying a baby!" and "I might die in childbirth!" aren't quite as snappy.

I’m adopted and happy with my family. My family - the people that nurtured me and brought me up. Not the 9 month incubator. I have no resentment to the biological mother, but certainly no need for attachment, and definitely know who I am. My left handedness is biology but it doesn’t define me. What I can do with my hands defines me.

I think a longed for child who will be adored is far better than the thousands of accidental pregnancies born into chaotic households. And also this bosh about women being erased - Jesus, surrogacy doesn’t detract from you being female. Yes, there’s exploitation - tell me one part of the world or people where there is none. But there’s also women out there that simply do it to help others.

so it’s ok for 2 lesbians to get a turkey baster but not ok for two gays to look to a surrogate. I have a womb that works, so only I’m allowed babies? What about those of us with fertility problems? Or lost their fertility through cancer? Or early menopause? Or a car accident? Or babies born to drug addicts?

seriously.

This.

Mumsnet is bonkers.

Not so keen on the T-shirts, but very surprised at the attitude to surrogacy on here. Gay men and many couples use this route to have a family and the children on the whole have very good outcomes. Suggesting this is buying a baby is quite offensive.

@XelaM I've been through infertility and it's shit. It's absolutely shit to want a baby and not be able to have one for any reason.

However, no one is owed a baby. Sadly for some people a biological child of their own just isn't something in their life.

There is a huge amount of exploitation in surrogacy. Women who 'choose' to carry someone else's baby, but often that choice is driven by poverty. Look closely at what is currently happening with surrogacy in Ukraine and what happened in India.

Very distasteful.

Surrogacy IS human trafficking. It is a paying a woman to breed to order, like a commodity.

Buying a child doesn’t make you a dad!

So, let me get this straight. If a surrogate carries a pregnancy using a donor egg she's not the mother. But if an infertile woman carries a pregnancy using a donor egg and keeps that baby, she is the mother? I don't understand how those two things can both be true.

@XelaM you've just said it yourself. They paid her lots of money so how is that not buying a baby? How is that not renting her womb?

Wow. Really surprised by the vitriol on this thread. Just such entitlement. So kids are only allowed for hetero couples that can give conceive naturally. Good for you. What about the 1000s of parents that have "natural" babies that are shit parents. Neglectful, abusive. If a couple that are going to be amazing parents cannot conceive naturally or via IVF why should they not have kids. What about kids that have lost their mothers, are they "lesser" as they've been brought up without a mother? Surrogacy can be done beautifully. Heard an interview on Radio 5 with lovely British surrogate mum. She loved what she was doing.

I'm a very conventional married middle aged mum of 2 . Never had the pain of infertility and do not find this offensive in the least.

OP YANBU - the t-shirt is vile

Giving birth is 'not some kind of major achievement.' lolz. That's so silly. Come on now. 😂😂

A lot of smug & offensive posts on this thread.

Not everyone can have a baby 'naturally' calling surrogacy 'revolting & disgusting' is plain nasty. Saying only babies that grew in your own womb & were created with your own egg are the only ones that are yours is also plain nasty.

I have no skin in the game, but my heart is hurting for people who are reading this absolute crap who are babies or parents if adoption, IVF or surrogacy.

many of you should be ashamed of yourselves.

disingenuous & goady thread, it's not the t shirt that's offensive.

Suggesting this is buying a baby is quite offensive.

Offensive or not, it's accurate.

I can see circumstances where surrogacy isn't exploitation - eg a sister or friend carrying a baby for another woman, done out of love - but 99% are commercial transactions, with all the risks of pregnancy borne by low-income women for the benefit of rich people.

I haven't seen any posts criticising IVF or adoption.

Surrogacy is completely different. You are literally using someone else's body for 9 months to get what you want.