To expect a real apology? Reposting for traffic

[danny735]

My DH was at the FA Cup final yesterday. Football is a huge hobby for him and he's had a season ticket for his club since he was a child.

We had a DD, 8 months old and he hasn't been able to go as much since she arrived. He's a good dad and he's very hands on but I will say he seems to be struggling since she was born. He doesn't stay in control of his emotions (whereas before DD he was my rock and showed high emotional intelligence).

He's been lashing out a lot but more than that hasn't showed the ability to take responsibility for his actions. He tends to externalise blame. We are in couples therapy already. I understand that he needs outlets and he was very much looking forward to the match yesterday. I've been unwell this weekend with a bad cold and DD is teething. I assured him he should still go, it was just a cold and whilst I felt a bit miserable I was able to look after DD. I left him through it throughout the day - just sending occasional pictures or videos of DD like I normally would. He left the house at 12:30 and was home at 9:30. I asked him to bring me a bar of chocolate. He messaged to say he was walking up from the station (an 8 minute walk) but didn't get home for another 20 minutes. I said "What took you so long?" He immediately flared up, swore at me and told me to "fuck off and go away" as well as another below the belt comment.

This morning he externalised blame - apparently his reaction/ swearing was because I asked him "What took you so long?" when he was still on the doorstep. He will apologise in one breath and externalise blame in the next which makes it quite difficult to accept the apology. He will then say "I should only have to apologise once". He didn't give any thought to the fact that I might have been exhausted from looking after a teething baby all day while feeling unwell. He didn't ask how I was feeling - he started swearing so I went to bed. When I suggested this morning that he had been taking his disappointment that his team lost out on me - he hotly disagreed. I was trying to understand his behaviour/ reaction but he just seems to take it as a slight.

What upsets me the most was the contempt in his voice / body language last night. Is it unreasonable to expect a meaningful apology?

Is it possible the 18 minutes included somebody having a pop at him just because he was wearing the wrong colour shirt?

I'd feel like swearing if I was glad to reach the safety of home to be bollocked for getting back more or less in one piece. And not being able to say anything because it would clearly, going by the mood of the initial commemt, spark off another bollocking when it might not have been my fault I got attacked.

Without being unkind, he's probably feeling overwhelmed and needed some time to himself (which of course you deserve too). Sending regular photos and videos of your child throughout the day when he's out with his mates might be a bit 'much' - he probably felt pressured to reply to them and just wanted some 'me' time. Also, asking him why he was a few minutes late as soon as he'd walked in the door was really unnecessary. Does it matter why he was about 10 minutes late? That wouldn't even have registered to me and even if I had I'd not have said anything! It comes across as controlling. Combined with the regular texts throughout the day he might feel like he's got no freedom and that you're being controlling. Maybe you both need to make regular time for each other to have some uninterrupted 'me' time (as well as time together of course).

I don't understand why people think you were snapping. It took longer than it should and you asked why. My dh really struggled after our lo was born. He was use to his autonomy to be able to go out/do as he pleased and massively struggled with being responsible for someone else. He also struggled with the lack of sleep and the fact that he had to do more round house as I was feeding baby. It took a long time for us to sort it but eventually we found a set up that worked for us both. I would never have had another child with him though because I would have known it would have meant more struggle and compromise.

If football obsessives aren't a problem, how come there are so many threads on mumsnet complaining about them? And swearing at your partner for asking a basic question is definitely not on. He sounds selfish, aggressive and lacking in compassion.

Firstly, absolutely he should not have sworn and shouted at you. He needs to acknowledge regardless of context, this isn't OK. He is in the wrong in this part at least

I think there are other issues at here though. What do you think happened in those 18 minutes? Is this a comment you would frequently make?

Do you think this could be unpicked during a couples therapy session? I think it needs to be discussed in a calm and neutral environment. Everyone can become irrational and lash out verbally during arguments. It doesnt make it right, but you need to have a look at how you deal with conflict. Obviously shouting and swearing is not a healthy way to manage disagreements, but most of us have done this and/or been on the receiving end.

I don't understand why people think you were snapping. It took longer than it should and you asked why.

Because asking "what took you so long?" the second someone walks through the door isn't just "asking why" - it's a loaded question which basically means "why weren't you home exactly on time and what have you been doing that you shouldn't have been" - it's accusatory.

OP says she was worried, but being 18 minutes late home from the station is really not something to get worried or stressed over and picking at him for it comes across as controlling.

You honestly sound like you are sick to death of each other, and are both on a hairpin trigger for snapping at one another.

It might be because you have a young baby and are both over tired, or it might be that your relationship has run its course.

Neither of you have covered yourself in glory, I wouldn't like to be sworn at, neither would I like all the therapy speak or controlling behaviour and my actions being timed.

Whatever happens from here, you both have a lifetime of being your daughters parents. Do you think there is a way back, or have you got 'the ick' with each other? Sometimes it can be better to end things before you push to where you can't even tolerate co-parenting together.

is there a list of MN approved Man Hobbies?
The thing about football fans with season tickets who manage to get a ticket to the Cup Final is that this doesn't usually start after they are married with a child. (although it can and that is still fine, we couldn't afford season tickets - note the plural there - until our kids had just about left home though) Usually someone who has an obsession already has it when you meet them (can come on later though, coughmid-life-crisiscough).

And of course we don't know how the whole thing went, but i am assuming that once his team won their semi-final the negotiations about the cup final were on. And be honest. If it was something OP really really really loved and wanted to do and doesn't come up that often, we'd be telling her she deserved it etc. Probably.

The fact is they are already having problems so each of their actions exaggerated it. He took 18 minutes too long to get home from the station (the purchase time of the chocolate bar is unclear here). As soon as he walked in he felt attacked.
OP was anxiously waiting, fed up, ill, alone with wriggly child and craving chocolate bar. 18 minutes is quite long under those circumstances so i get that.

Add in the previous communication problems and it's a recipe for disaster. The early years are stressful enough in a strong relationship, if it's wobbly, it can collapse like a house of cards. Therapy is helpful but you have to work on it too.

Hope OP is feeling better now, and that her DH has got over losing again.

sorry, one more thing: not sure about Wembley, but when I'm at our stadium there are so many people there, texting photos doesn't work.

Hi OP. It is hard to tell whether you are unreasonable here as there are 3 sides to these arguments; your side, his side, and the truth.

My take is this. It is difficult for both of you. It is good that you could arrange for him to go to the cup final, you get a lot of snearing on here about football, but if he enjoys it, its important for the health of your relationship that he gets to pursue his interest, albeit maybe dialed back a bit with the arrival of your baby. But it is important that you get that opportunity as well. If there is inequity in this regard you need to speak up because you are equally as entitled. And he needs to find a way of facilitating your away time, as you did for him at the cup final.

As far as the swearing goes, no its not great. Its not healthy to swear like that at your partner and mother of your child. But I delicately suggest that being interrogated over the time when we're talking a matter of minutes would cause annoyance. I think its possible to hold both thoughts in your head here in that you were unnecessarily badgering him, but he reacted very badly. IMO you both owe each other an apology.

As regards the pictures. Well if he usually likes them and appreciates it, I think its lovely. As long as you don't chase for a response and demand to know why he hasn't looked yet or whatever, then its fine, cute and loving. If he wants his day off he can ignore them for a few hours.

The councilor speak is a bit annoying and I wouldn't appreciate it. Demanding a "proper apology" is likely to exacerbate problems. Part of being a couple is to forgive and move on (within reason, obviously) and my take here is that neither of you covered yourselves in glory.

You appear to have a loving relationship but are finding it hard to adjust to your new situation. Communicate your needs and wants without this patronising "externalising anger" and "proper apology" claptrap. Best wishes and love.