DH and career, salary

[hjliu8999]

To preface this with, this issue is not new and has been a source of tension between DH and I ever since we got together decades ago. But just had yet another fight with DH regarding his job and whether he should look for something else.

He's been in his current position for three years now, no salary increase and no promotion - and realistically it just wont happen, they said so. I've been trying to encourage him to move on. He admits he doesnt like his job or sector so it's not like he loves it or anything but just doesn't know how to look for anything else.

And frankly am fed up. We used to live abroad where he was in the same position for ten years - no promotion and just inflationary salary increases. We came back due to my job so he found the first thing he could and basically it's the same thing. But by now we have DC and London is really expensive (his current job is also half the money he earned abroad). By now he's 42 so time is not exactly on his side. And I appreciate that 55k is not nothing, but he has three degrees and is working in a professional job.

From my side I do work full time - in the sector that he used to work in and by now earn more than he does. But it's a public sector ish job and I wont be able to find anything in the private sector (those jobs just dont exist). Realistically my pay progression is rubbish (max I will ever earn is probably 70kish) but I do have a lot more flexibility and annual leave so do more of the childcare.

Am just really fed up. With the cost of living going up along with interest rates - we have a big mortgage - and I dont know how to convince DH that he needs to find something else. He accuses me of wanting him to earn more money - like thats a bad thing or something. Am I being unreasonable or is he? Any tips on how to change things.

You are totally right to fear that he'll be managed out. He is treading water and he'll be left behind. At some point his employers will start to view him as dead wood, and that'll be it. And you'll be left carrying the can, busting your gut to keep the boat afloat, et cetera etc.

Something @AnotherEmma said rang true - it seems like he doesn’t want her to advance her career. Maybe he is a bit bitter that his wife is making it as an academic and being good enough to make professor when he can’t. I wonder how much of his behaviour is a result of that.

I agree. He MAY be just lazy and unambitious, but the end result is the same: he is sabotaging your career and fucking up the life you COULD be living.

Oh he definitely resends me making it, which is fine and I get it. But any talk about money or jobs quickly turns it 'well it's easy for you to say, you made it'. i have tried to tell him that i only made it because I am a lot more strategic than he is. He definitely loved it much more than I do and is definitely a lot smarter than me. But thats not enough in academia and I fear not enough in the private sector. He also refuses to learn anything about his industry (private sector) or network, which is fine but he hates his current job

The more you write the more I think you need to call time, it may be the only way he seeks therapy and grows the F up. If nothing changes he will continue to sabotage you both.

Your DC deserve better.

True but if he were on his own he'd be fine. Not everyone is that organised or forward thinking. If they were, my own job wouldn't be needed... A lot of people don't start attacking their career till much later. He is one of them. I started at 21 but smart people who started late 20s have caught up. The difference with him and OP's DP is he owned property before we met and is fiscally very prudent. He just never had the kind of upbringing that instilled any confidence in him, ambition was beaten out of you - it's ok to help your partner see their potential. But this isn't about me. It's about OP.

He’s being ridiculous.

It is not your fault that he couldn’t make it in his preferred career. It just isn’t.

He need to stop trying to sabotage you.

Honestly, what is he bringing to this relationship that’s positive?

Yanbu I would find him irritating

He sounds like a moody teen. Does he not want stability for your kids? I think he needs therapy to get over his disappointment and maybe to see if he is depressed. We can’t all do what we want - some things are just too competitive and we get unlucky. We can still be happy about other things though

It's not fine really though in the long term, is it? You don't need to put yourself down or massage his ego by suggesting you only made it because you're more strategic. I imagine you're also easier to work with than your DH. If he's as immature in the workplace as he is as a DH, he's going to run people up the wrong way.

How childish to refuse to learn about his own industry, while also refusing to look for other work. I'm sure there are other sectors, like private schools or sixth form colleges where he could get work, and bump up his income with private tutoring, while still doing the childcare, so helping you out. But he's still sulking, so wouldn't even think about being that creative. Immaturity becomes increasingly more unattractive as someone ages!

I agree with @Testina the corporate world just doesn't spit you out after a certain age. I have worked in FMCG and retail head office roles for decades.

Start ups are renowned for being intense, high pressure environments with small teams to keep costs down. They don't have the resources to allow flexibility, hence why his colleagues are all younger than him, they probably don't have the same family commitments as he has so can work all hours. But they probably also love the wide spans of control you get plus the lack of process.

I actually think a corporate job in a bigger company might be a much better fit for your DH. They usually have policies in place to allow flexible working and really look for diverse, transferable skill sets which he has. As long as you add 'value' you will be seen as an asset.

Sounds like he needs to get over the fact that he won't /can't be an academic though. From what you have described, it sounds like a form of trauma for him that he is no longer in this world. He also sounds resentful that you are flourishing in this sphere and he isn't. I can't see anything moving forward until he has made peace with this.

He needs to do it quickly though, you do have a big mortgage and his lifestyle choices are not in line with your current income.

For an ex-academic he is coming across as really thick TBH

Considering how many good universities there are across the UK and many in much cheaper areas I seriously would look at securing a job for yourself elsewhere.

£400k would get you a prestigious detached 4 bed house in a good location on the doorstep of the uni and great schools where I am. 3 bed standard semi start in the same location start at £200k and that is after the Covid massive price hikes.

At least it gives you options to end the relationship if his appalling attitude carries on.

Fact of life is that once DC are at school not working is a huge and rare privilege. Pension, DC getting more expensive, cost of living rocketing.

I did say, that I couldn’t speak for his one current workplace. If the original owners are still there and are 40s, then it sounds like it still has a start up vibe. You can no more compare a privately owned start up to other private sector than you can to a university.

It doesn’t make sense to think he has to have a promotion record. It’s a triangle - not everyone can be promoted. Where do you think all the other 50yos are? Sitting in my office, some of them!

He also refuses to learn anything about his industry (private sector) or network, which is fine but he hates his current job

I'm not sure that is fine actually. I really hope he hides his disdain for the private sector from his colleagues or they probably will try to gently get rid of him.

The more you post the more unpleasant he sounds OP. Resentful of your success, arrogant (he clearly thinks he's worthy of an expensive lifestyle above what he can afford) and a bit thick (how the hell does he think academia is funded if it isn't by the evil capitalists - does he think the money comes from the magic money tree?). Honestly, I would be protecting your savings and having a very serious talk about the future of your marriage.

OP I sympathise, there are aspects of your story that sound like you could be talking about my husband, specifically the misery about his current job mixed with a lack of initiative to look for other work. It's just so draining. Though in our case DH and I both still work in academia, but he now realises it's not for him.

I know this can be interpreted as making excuses for your husband, but could it be that he's suffering from depression? My DH has suffered from mild anxiety and depression for years (decades), but neither of us had fully realised how much that contributed to his current state of mind. He's now been back on anti-depressants for a few months, and while he still dislikes his job and moans about it a lot, I think the anti-depressants have helped him to gain some clarity and the mindspace he needed to begin considering alternative career options.

I think some of your DH's actions are clearly unacceptable (spending family money that does not match your incomes), but it does sound like there might be some underlying things he's struggling with. Academia does seem to attract people for whom their job is a core part of who they are as a person, and if he has always considered himself as an academic and now needs to readjust his own perception of who he is, he might be finding that difficult (especially since you clearly are very successful in the same job!). Again, no excuse for some of his actions, but I wonder if some sessions with a therapist could be helpful.

Op

you don’t seem to like your husband let alone love him
he is moany and negative and sounds a bit depressed
you have very different approaches to finances, savings and lifestyle
he doesn’t support you with the children
its been going on for decades
you fundamentally don’t respect him and he doesn’t seem too bothered about that fact

and I’m guessing your sex life with him is non existent

this isn’t a happy marriage even if you took away the money issue. In fact this is the polar opposite of a happy marriage. This can’t be a pleasant environment for you, your dh and most importantly - your children

@Portiasparty I think you are right that he needs to get over it. The reality is that he's only really had two jobs in his life (exc student jobs) and with the last one I told him all about our industry and he just relied on that. I have tried to send him job ads for his current sector but he says they dont fit, which is fine but he also says he doesnt really understand how it works. The difference is that this time - I dont work in it so cant help. He's on his own.

@Pipsquiggle He should definitely just move to a bigger corporate but he doesnt like applying for jobs, finds it soul destroying and think the current work model is all b s. Whilst I dont disagree with David Graeber - he's done nothing to manage without such a job.

@RandomMess Honestly if things dont change then I might have to but it will take a while etc. Plus his industry is London based (exclusively) so it just does what he'd like to i.e. I get a job outside London, we buy a small house outright and he never has to work again. But honestly seeing as he was never all that bothered about having kids etc - I fear that might just make me resentful that I will have to work and pay for both our pensions while he gets to do nothing all because he thinks being a manager is stupid and unfulfilling.

I get that - which is why I would like him to apply for other jobs rather than sit in the one he has.

Honestly tell him not working is not an option it's a marriage deal breaker. If you split he'll have to get a job after all you are main cater and main breadwinner.

Spell it out to him.

I would be tempted to relocate when a suitable role for you comes up, one that makes your life financially comfortable if you divorce.

You are absolutely right and he has had therapy in the past. However, we cant afford years of therapy in the UK like we did in the past. Not sure it really helped. He loved having someone to moan to once a week but neither of us saw any progress.

He absolutely saw his identity as a left wing academic who destroys the right wing bogeyman - and he hates that he now has to work within the system rather than against it. And I appreciate that the UK is fairly right wing especially with the current government and that public sector jobs just dont pay very much while expecting you to work all hours. But again is that my fault. He basically wants to spend his days researching about the evilness of the 'system' while getting paid handsomely for it or he aint interested.

I think you are giving way too much credibility to his “political philosophy” - he’s just lazy and entitled.

sounds like you feel like you still need to buy into his bullshit. You really don’t.

From what you've written there's no good reasons - either emotionally or practically - to remain married. He moans, spends more money than he earns, refuses ( by dint of not applying for more suitable roles) to do any childcare, feels ( despite not doing any childcare) that he should be a SAHD.

Do you still love him ?

Plus his industry is London based (exclusively) so it just does what he'd like to i.e. I get a job outside London, we buy a small house outright and he never has to work again. But honestly seeing as he was never all that bothered about having kids etc - I fear that might just make me resentful that I will have to work and pay for both our pensions while he gets to do nothing all because he thinks being a manager is stupid and unfulfilling.

You fear you MIGHT get resentful?
You reckon?!!!!

Listen OP - every update you post is sadder than the last. I think you have become so ground down by your H's constant negativity, entitlement, & arrogance that you have lost sight of how very much you are carrying & how very little he brings to the family.

The only thing "stupid & unfulfilling" here is your H.
For all his much-vaunted intelligence - clever is as clever does.
And he is acting like a sulky teenager who knows everything but does nothing.
If he wants to give up work & live abroad, he can do so under his own steam.
He doesn't get to make you pay for it.

Blimey...he wants to be a SAHD as he thinks it's an easy option, an escape hatch. It wouldn't be good for anyone as it's more procrastination. If he missed the kids he'd already have a flexible job.

I'd be having a serious think. I wonder how many chances to pull their head out of the sand you give someone?

With the anxiety/depression/moaning/procrastination - it sounds as though he's never been any different? Literally nothing has worked?

Well not much I guess. The reality is that for most of our 30s we had cash and no kids so never had to budget or answer difficult questions. Then he mostly WFH during Covid (obviously and in his case he loved it and was a bit more hands on with the kids) but now they are back in the office full time and our youngest is going into school in Sept, issues have come back onto the surface

But again is that my fault. He basically wants to spend his days researching about the evilness of the 'system' while getting paid handsomely for it or he aint interested.

How do you honestly live with a man who thinks like this?

I mean, we all want a lot of things. You have no obligation to keep accepting the blame for this though. And do ask him how he thinks living off savings in a cheaper country, using money made whilst in wealthy, capitalist economies that rely on exploitation of the global poor to keep functioning fits in with his perception of himself as a left winger destroying right wing bogeymen.