DH and career, salary

[hjliu8999]

To preface this with, this issue is not new and has been a source of tension between DH and I ever since we got together decades ago. But just had yet another fight with DH regarding his job and whether he should look for something else.

He's been in his current position for three years now, no salary increase and no promotion - and realistically it just wont happen, they said so. I've been trying to encourage him to move on. He admits he doesnt like his job or sector so it's not like he loves it or anything but just doesn't know how to look for anything else.

And frankly am fed up. We used to live abroad where he was in the same position for ten years - no promotion and just inflationary salary increases. We came back due to my job so he found the first thing he could and basically it's the same thing. But by now we have DC and London is really expensive (his current job is also half the money he earned abroad). By now he's 42 so time is not exactly on his side. And I appreciate that 55k is not nothing, but he has three degrees and is working in a professional job.

From my side I do work full time - in the sector that he used to work in and by now earn more than he does. But it's a public sector ish job and I wont be able to find anything in the private sector (those jobs just dont exist). Realistically my pay progression is rubbish (max I will ever earn is probably 70kish) but I do have a lot more flexibility and annual leave so do more of the childcare.

Am just really fed up. With the cost of living going up along with interest rates - we have a big mortgage - and I dont know how to convince DH that he needs to find something else. He accuses me of wanting him to earn more money - like thats a bad thing or something. Am I being unreasonable or is he? Any tips on how to change things.

He's a lazy entitled arse who'll blame u no matter what u do.... get to your conferences do your hours and leave him behind....how long are you stifling your potential for his moaning....how big is your caterer window open for to take that opportunity...?
The kids will be OK in childcare ...millions of families have to do it...
Call his bluff and just get on with it...
If you always do what you've always done....trope for a reason

I would seriously look at the numbers though and see if you can move and reduce the big mortgage...or just be sure you're in area with good schools ...
if you end up divorcing (and I'm struggling to see why you'd stay) a nanny would be cheaper...!
Also just say no to the holidays/shopping etc he sounds financially reckless...

He sounds worse the more you post. I think it’s quite telling he expected you to support him with his PhD and is happily eating into your savings rather than cut his cloth accordingly or get a better paid job. It’s also pretty shit he is forcing you to take on the childcare and saying he can’t do anything with his current job - which surely would be another reason to look for another??!

Does he really want to become a SAHD? Or does he just not want to work for a living?

OP - I feel a lot of sympathy for you for your following posts. The problem has many solutions but your DH does not seem to want to take ANY of the options to change the situation (change job, earn more, spend less, do more childcare). I think you need marriage counselling and perhaps he should see gp to see if he is depressed- as it can affect motivation?

i looked for jobs for DH on LinkedIn and showed him the ones with interesting job specs. It got him interested and motivated.

@hjliu8999 please tell us which sector he is in - there will be people on here in the same sector and be able to tell you if he's talking BS

How old are your children OP?

His idea in all of this is that it was my idea to come back and really we should just leave London, move somewhere cheaper anywhere in the world and live on our savings...I think indefinitely because jobs are rubbish.
Yes, I thought so. He just wants to run from his responsibilities, & keep milking you.
Time for drastic action.

I now feel stuck listening to him moaning about his job night after night all the while having to shoulder the kids and the job, trying to figure out how to get promoted and worrying about our expenses.
Tonight - the first time he moans - hold up your hand & say "Can I just stop you there?" & WALK AWAY.
If he follows - let it rip. Tell him you are fed up to the point of misery with his moaning, his overspending, his lack of parental involvement.
Tell him he is welcome to go & live cheaply abroad, but he's not taking the family savings with him.
Explain that you could house an au pair more cheaply than him, so why doesn't he fuck off while you get the divorce in motion?

He's been underperforming for 20 years OP. That's fine - for him.
But when it's at your expense & is also dragging you & the kids down with him - not fine. (£10k a year overspend - on HIMSELF ALONE!!!!)
He needs to either wake the fuck up, or fuck off.

@hjliu8999 -tone deaf

All of this OP.
You need to take control, or he'll spend all your savings.
While still moaning on & on & on, & making you & the kids miserable.

So either our kids are in after school care five days a week before and after which they hate or I do some of the pick ups and work evenings. I cant just go and network or go to conferences like everyone else trying to become a prof - because I have kids

You still haven't said why you aren't paying for childcare. With your incomes you can afford this, which would free you up to get your promotion.

Your reasons for not getting a better job are almost identical to your complaints about his job - rubbish salary (in your eyes), no progression, no other jobs out there and you don't like it that much either.

Out of interest, does he have an actual plan for what this might look like? As in the city or country at least, the cost of living there and how you could make your savings cover it? Or is it just a general whinge about not being able to afford the lifestyle he wants and this is apparently your fault? I do have some sympathy with him not loving the lifestyle and cost of living in one of the more expensive cities on the planet, but it's not like you kidnapped him and dragged him to London. He isn't taking responsibility for his own situation.

He’s one of those bloody awful social scientists who whinge about everything but fail to apply their analyses to themselves, isn’t he?

Sure society isn’t set up for two
working parents. Yet that only seems to be affecting him, doesn’t it? You have the higher paying FT job and all the family responsibilities.

The problem is not the structure of society. It’s him.

If the problem is the structure of society, it’s in letting men like him get away with this shit.

That would be my response if he said that to me!

This sounds intensely frustrating, and reading your various updates, I would say YANBU.

When my DH was in a funk at work but also totally apathetic about finding something new, moaning every evening, earning too little, and generally being a grump, I ended up investing in a career coach for him. 6 sessions. Cost an arm and a leg, but the coach helped him define some career aspirations to get him out of his slump, and made him accountable for applying to a certain number of jobs & having 15 networking calls per week. After 5 months, my DH landed something in a new sector. The salary was similar (a tiny bit lower) with somewhat less responsibility; but has way more flexibility, better career progression prospects, and at last he is EXCITED about work after 8 years working for the same backwards firm.

Another more “out there” thought… you’ve fallen into a pattern where way more childcare falls on you than is fair. Your DH says his work isn’t flexible… but come on, are there truly zero parents (read: mothers) at his company who step up for their kids? I struggle to believe that. I think he’s making excuses, and to be honest you’re enabling him. My DH’s old company was extremely old school, engineering, 95% male, deeply (openly) misogynistic, with the usual comments about dads needing to “babysit”… so DH thought doing childcare would be challenging. But the reality is, my much higher-paying job requires me to travel a lot - up to 4 days per week - so he just needed to figure it out. I could do pick ups 1-2 times a week, and I do a lot of other home stuff like all of the cooking, liaising with childcare/school, weekend activities, every bedtime when I’m home, trips with the DCs, etc. But by me not being physically home 1/2 the week, we’ve ended up falling into a very egalitarian model at home, despite what he initially believed would (not) be possible with his job… and we’ve made it work really well! So - all this to say - GO TO YOUR CONFERENCES. Just do it. If he’s an equal parent, then he’ll need to figure something out.

So our kids to go into childcare but he can't do any pick ups or drop off now he is back in the office full-time. I can especially now teaching is done, but can't really go to any events or conferences, can't do lots of research because of the kids etc etc. His job was ok ish during covid because he was at home and there weren't so many things for me to attend. Also I don't hate my job or moan, if he at least liked it.

In terms of his plan, its vague and something about selling our house and using equity to buy somewhere outright in the world and teach English or something or just get odd jobs. Fine but we have kids and I don't really want to run easy from it all just because he thinks England is a broken country. We don't have EU citizenship so thats harder. Ideally I think he wants me to get a professorship somewhere in Europe and for us to leave. But I would like to speak the local language while our kids are primary and am just tired of moving around

So the answer is another huge change according to him @hjliu8999 I can see why you are frustrated.

At a minimum, you have a cast iron case for insisting he get a job that allows him to do his fair share with the dc.

So our kids to go into childcare but he can't do any pick ups or drop off now he is back in the office full-time.
FGS outsource it so you can have a run at the professorship you want.
You are going to end up coping solo anyway at some point, because your current set-up is unsustainable.

In terms of his plan, its vague and something about selling our house and using equity to buy somewhere outright in the world and teach English or something or just get odd jobs.
Right.
Not exactly a plan then. More of an open-ended gap year.
So he wants you to sacrifice everything you've worked for, & all his children's security that you've spent decades building up. What a tool.

If you divorced him, he could take his portion of the equity & see how far & long it took him. I bet he wouldn't go though. I bet he'd stay marooned in the same job he hates, moaning for Britain, & being awkward about co-parenting.

He's not wrong in term of flexibility, its a small start up with only two juniors who are female. He'd really need to leave to get flexi time

Yes he needs to leave, and get a job with better working terms as a minimum - I work mostly with men in IT and ALL of them do school runs and childcare pick ups - amazed in this day and age he's found a job with no flex at all.

He does sound like an idealist who defines ideal as whatever he currently wants.

@hjliu8999 he just needs to ask or state though. Today I will be starting at 9.30 as I am dropping my DCs at nursery, this will be happening every Tuesday and Thursday. I'll stay late or log in at home so I don't miss anything.

There are literally hundreds of jobs available at the minute- ok they may not all be at his salary and experience- but people are struggling to get and retain staff. Your DH has been there a while so even if he's not dynamic and thrusting unless he's an incompetent boob, they're unlikely to want to lose him for the sake of demonstrating some family friendliness which is all the rage these days, particularly when men are doing the school run.

None of this really fits with the "combined income of £190k" you keep quoting. If you've both been in academia since you were in your early 20s, the earliest you'd realistically have finished a PhD would be when you were around 25-26. That doesn't leave a lot of time for two £95k jobs then for you to be back in academia earning £55k and get to be a senior lecturer, and for him to have left and coasted elsewhere up to £55k in industry/related field. The timeline is off.

In terms of his plan, its vague and something about selling our house and using equity to buy somewhere outright in the world and teach English or something or just get odd jobs. Fine but we have kids and I don't really want to run easy from it all just because he thinks England is a broken country. We don't have EU citizenship so thats harder. Ideally I think he wants me to get a professorship somewhere in Europe and for us to leave. But I would like to speak the local language while our kids are primary and am just tired of moving around

So flying it by the seat of his pants then, with no real idea of the practicalities and just the assumption you'd make it work. I suspected as much.

Timeline is not off....there are plenty of places where this is possible....one was mentioned earlier in the thread. Just because British academia pays peanuts doesn't mean elsewhere does

I get it too, it's completely possible as academic salaries vary vastly across the world.

@hjliu8999 I reckon I'd put anything in place to get that promotion - hire an au pair now?

You've grown up and he hasn't - he still thinks kids will just slot in and him doing no pick ups etc enables his lack of reality

I honestly think you should get off his back - it's not as if he's dossing around at home earning nothing and sponging off you. If he wants to "get on" he will, if he doesn't want to then - leave him be. He is a grown adult and does not have to share your idea of what constitutes a worthwhile life.

At various times both my OH and I wanted to do less or different work which resulted in a drop in income. We each supported the other in these decisions.

Have you read all the OPs posts @Mischance ?

It's not clear from the start, but the real issue is that the H wants to live the high life using their savings to bolster their spending and refuses to do any of the childcare. Oh and is always moaning about his job/the United Kingdom/society et al.