Israeli forces attacking funeral procession of a journalist

[AnxietyForever]

I've just seen the videos and have been reading up on this, utterly gobsmacked..
I mean, you'd think they'd have left the funeral take place?

@Ferngreen Where should the Palestinians move to when Israeli settles are moving into/stealing their homes?
In an ideal world everyone would live in peace obviously, but in this instance it seems the Palestinian people are the ones worse off in this situation !

I agree the Palestinian situation is tragic but like many countries -Afghanistan, Ukraine, N Ireland there's no magic wand to make everyone kind and generous - so a practicable solution is needed, the best option. The present stand off the Palestinians have now isnot the best option for them imv.
They have to compromise.

So you’d be happy to kicked out of your house right now so someone from Ukraine can have a life in the uk ?

What kind of compromise would you suggest that doesn’t make them lose their land and be killed ?

It’s pretty clear you don’t care a hoot for the Palestinians.

Can someone please explain to me why they think Palestinian suffering is marginalised in the media? I am serious, because all I ever see, on the media and on social media, is criticism of Israel over this.. If anything I would have to say that the media and social media is very much anti-Israel and pro- Palestinian.

Regardless, I honestly don't think that even people living there really know the truth of what actually happens, except for the incidents that happen to them personally, let alone people sitting in the west.

Regarding the journalist being shot - we should await the results of the investigation. Whoever shot her, it is disgusting.

Regarding the funeral, having read the Israeli media (both left and right wing) to get a balanced view of what they are saying: it seems that one police commander who was not physically present on the day ordered that PLO flags not be allowed at the procession. The police then had to enforce this order but there was not just a few flags but hundreds. It turned nasty, understandably. Mourners - of whom there would have been hundreds if not thousands - started to riot and throw stones. If that got further out of hand it would have escalated very, very quickly hence police squashed it.

I don't agree with their methods but let's face it very few countries have police as gentle and restrained as the British police (and yes that has not always been the case in the UK either).
On the other side I think being faced by hundreds or thousands of angry protestors shouting for blood and revenge is going to be fucking terrifying.

The police commissioner is apparently carrying out an enquiry into the decisions made on the day and in particular into why the commander made the provocative decision to ban flags and order the police to confiscate them, because that was unnecessary.

What happened at her funeral was terrible. Respect for the dead and the grieving is universal, it must have been so painful, especially for her family and friends. Women have long struggled to get into professions like journalism, and I think she was an inspiration in this regard. War and occupation are patriarchal ideologies, I think, so I believe her to be important to women and feminism, as well as to journalism and the struggle of her people. RIP Shireen

I think the issue is that pallbearers were neither throwing stones or carrying flags. They were trying to hold a coffin up, while being beaten around the head and body. No justification for that, is there?

Regarding the funeral, having read the Israeli media (both left and right wing) to get a balanced view of what they are saying

This is akin to saying you’ve had a look at the Russian News Agency to get a balanced view of what’s happening in Ukraine.

Israel is notorious for propaganda, doctored images and videos and false rhetorics in order to make themselves seem more civilised to the outside world. That is why since 2001 Israel
has killed over 50 journalists. This is the reason they killed Shireen. After everything that has happened at the hands of the IDF, and after all the “rational explanations” that have been proven without doubt to be lies, why on earth would you ever use Israeli media to gain a balanced view?

Because someone further up the thread wondered what was being reported in Israeli media. And I had already read the other reporting.

Palestinian's are also notorious for propaganda, doctored images, and videos and false rhetorics...

And the Israeli press are not censored in the way that the Russian press are, so that's a daft comparison! Not that any press is independent...almost all reporting is interpretative and interpreted according to the reporter or publications own views.

The figure of '50 journalists killed by Israel since 2001' is quoted by the Palestinian Journalism Syndicate, not an independent source.
Which takes us back to my comment that there is propaganda on both sides.

In fact, the Committee to Protect Journalists (probably a rather more independent source) reports 19 journalists killed in Israel or the Palestinian territories since 1992. 4 on dangerous assignments, 14 in crossfire, 1 murder. The murder, of a Palestinian journalist, was carried by a Palestinian organisation, reportedly Fatah....

Many of those killed in crossfire were reported killed by Israeli fire, this is correct. Barring one, they were local journalists and in at least some cases confirmed to be both participating in, as well as reporting on, uprisings. Don't forget this is in a part of the world and in events where everything is foggy, nothing is clear cut, trust nobody.

I look at all angels of a story because I hope I’m not biased. It’s not at all helpful that some people present a biased anti Israeli view.

Just to be clear on my last paragraph (before someone misinterprets it) I in no way condone using live fire on protestors. I am just saying that some of the journalists killed in crossfire were actively involved in the events, not just standing on the side reporting. So they were involved in a more dangerous way than your average BBC reporter.

As always in this situation what was the provocation? I do wonder I’d the anti Jews care?

The present stand off the Palestinians have now isnot the best option for them imv. They have to compromise.*

The Palestinians have little land, few jobs, very limited access to water and medical supplies, they can't vote, they have no legal recourse if their homes are seized or they are shot, they can't travel freely, they don't have the right to free speech or public assembly.

What exactly should they give up in order to compromise?

Bit of a long shot here, but maybe terrorism?

Gandhi achieved far more by passive resistance.

Not that people had much choice but to vote for Hamas, since Fatah supporters in Gaza were pushed off rooftops and there were no non-terrorist organisations to vote for. And if they dissent and tell someone, the news will travel very fast and they'll be killed or invited to restore their family honour by killing some Israeli's, whereupon their family will also receive monthly payments for life. Partly funded by the UK government who are pretty much responsible for starting the whole fiasco in the first place.

Can you really not tell the difference between criticising Israel and being an anti-Semite? Really? Or is it just useful?

Because so far this year I'd say I've had a go at the UK, and I'm not anti-Protestant, Russia, and I'm not anti-Orthodox, Dubai/UAE, and I'm not anti-Muslim, China, and I'm not anti-Buddhist and the US and I'm probably a bit anti-evangelist Christians.

I didn't support violent terrorism in South Africa during Apartheid but I very much condemned SA. And pretending they were justified in their (very similar) violence against protesters is ugly. And pretending it's about anti-semitism misses the point. As I said earlier, I worry a great deal about anti-semitism, and do not condone it.

Bit of a long shot here, but maybe terrorism?

You think all Palestinians are responsible for the actions of terrorists and that justifies collective punishment?

Imagine if someone said that about Jews and the shooting of these journalists.

Sorry but who are the anti Jews that you are referring to? Haven’t seen any on this thread.

No, I clearly said that the average Palestinian had no choice but to elect a government whose main way of protest is through terrorism and using the funds received to fund terrorism.

And yes plenty of people do say that about Israelis and Jews. Remember synagogues in Europe being attacked because of things that happened in Israel?

For other posters wondering why legitimate criticism of the Israeli government is misconstrued as anti-Semitism:
You have to remember that for Jews, the one guaranteed safe place they have to go if the unthinkable happens again (and it is no longer as unthinkable as it was 20 years ago) is Israel.

Most people don't criticise the 'Israeli government', they use the word 'Israel'.

Some people have legitimate critisism of Israeli government policies, many misunderstand what is happening or jump to conclusions based on twisted reporting, and many, if you scratch the surface are actually anti-Semitic. For example, some people -including some current MPs - ignore many horrendous human rights abuses all over the world but are solely obsessed with anything that Israel does wrong. Those cases are anti semitism and if anyone reading is a fervent supporter of Palestinian rights but only of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, not of Palestinians being mistreated in Jordan or Lebanon and not of any other group in the world.....I invite them to look into their hearts and see what the real source of their concern is.

In general there is so much false information being spread out there that legitimate criticism of the Israeli government is lumped together with the hate and false reporting, it just triggers a defensive switch.

I would ask everyone to be very clear that it is Israeli government actions they are condemning, not Israel. If a soldier or police officer acts wrongly and against instruction, that is a single person's wrong action, not 'the bloody Israelis at it again'.

Over and out!

I suppose just naming the country is a common shorthand though? I just looked at a couple of headlines and saw items about 'Russians withdrawing from border,' 'Scotland is a racist country', 'Russia's chilling threat to deploy nukes..' Perhaps it's a lazy shorthand, but not unique to Israel? When travelling I had the odd political conversation where people told me 'the Brits' were doing something, which I strongly disagreed with, but found the rest of the world included me in decisions of my government and it's institutions! Usually explaining I did not agree with those decisions cleared it up.

I suppose just naming the Country is a common shorthand though

Yes you are spot on. This commonly happens with all Countries and is not unique at all to Israel. And therefore is not anti semetic in my opinion.

We do make an effort with DD to always say, "not all Russians like Putin" or "not all Americans hate women's rights". But I think between adults we can refrain and assume when I say "the UK fucked up on Brexit" I mean the politicians and the people that voted for it, not the Remainers!

The same is true of Israelis. And obviously none of it extends to other Jewish people at all. I don't condone what Stalin did because I'm an atheist.

Getting back to the point.

The Israeli Government keeps breaking international law and taking land from the Palestinians. It is ethnic cleansing and saying this is wrong is not anti-semitic.

Which land would that be? And how was it 'the Palestinians' in the first place?