To actively try for twins?

[TerryJ94]

Posting for traffic, new user so apologies if things aren’t formatted properly or I use the codes wrongly!!

DH and I are a few days away from our embryo transfer in our first round of IVF. We found out today that since we are paying privately we are not bound by the NHS ‘Rules’ around only implanting one embryo for our first attempt based on age (I am 28, and the NHS guide that for a first try anyone under 40 doesn’t have more than one transferred)

this has thrown us as we had always assumed based on what we read that since it’s likely we would have one clear ‘winning’ embryo we wouldn’t get much of a choice in the matter, but now we have a choice to make and I’m looking for advice or guidance or something.

We know there are risks for multiple pregnancies, but would we be unreasonable for actively trying to get a multiple when we have the chance to?

To avoid a drip feed -

DH has always only wanted one child, but has said this was mainly due to practical reasons around house size, we are both career focused so multiple leaves etc. was also a concern (we are splitting our leave as we fully believe it’s as much his job as mine to take time out to raise our child(ren) in those first 12 months) however with twins that does eradicate pretty much half of his reservations with having more than one child.

I am much more keen on the idea than he is, but he isn’t 100% against it, if he was dead set against the idea it wouldn’t even be a consideration.

We both earn well and I have 6 months fully paid mat leave through work, he has 3 months full pay for his paternity leave which he can take any time in the first 12 months, financially we can afford 2 children easily. If for whatever reason we split I could more than cover our mortgage, nursery fees etc. for both children myself so there is no financial concerns for the future at this stage anyway.

I have a supportive family and my mum has already agreed to take 2 months off next year to move in and support with the baby, my younger brother is also very supportive and would come to help if need be too after this 2 month period ends.

my only concerns are am I being ridiculous thinking this is a good idea, will I look back at myself and laugh at how great twin life would be.

It is of course not 100% certain we will get twins but our clinic has advised based on how well our embryos are developing (17 out of 19 fertilised and 10 are ‘top quality’ based on the clinics grading system) we’d have a 65-75% chance of both sticking if two were transferred.

I personally see this as my only guaranteed way to at least try to have 2 children, DH could be worked on but there is no guarantee he would be up for another round in a few years time, especially if life changes and it makes sense to stick to one.

DH is more practical on the matter and has said he isn’t saying no, but he definitely would prefer just one embryo to be transferred, greatly prefer it in fact, and that the risks associated with a multiple pregnancy worry him, I lost a close female relative during child birth a few years ago and this has really scarred him, Frankly it took a lot to get him used to the idea of trying in general as he convinced himself I would die.

So twin mums please tell me if this is crazy, anyone else also chip in as I am genuinely so confused and desperate for unbiased views (as my family are definitely in the more the merrier camp!)

So I'm a mum of twins who came from a single embryo (IVF). The chances of that are about 1 in 100 with IVF, so really not that low. If we'd transferred two embryos, there's a good chance we would have had triplets or even quads. Don't do it! Transfer one, any additional embryos can be frozen for the future.

Not sure if it’s been mentioned already but IVF means you are much much more like to have identical twins (or even triplets) that naturally conceived pregnancies.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4515956/

so transferring two embryos could give you triplets or even quads…

cross posts with @Strathyre!

@AngelinaFibres i can assure you he was sleep deprived post op, don’t want to be too outing but I needed equipment to sleep safely for a few months and it was noisy as heck. I can sleep through anything but he wakes at the sound of a pin drop so it wasn’t a fun period for him, still loved having mum up though as being sleep deprived and having to do everything round the house is worse than just being sleep deprived

@TerrazzoChips cross post but we made pretty much the same point! I am so glad we only transferred one embryos, twins is tough but I'm not sure triplets would have been survivable!

I don't have twins, and I can see your reasoning, but I have to say, when you see how much even having a singleton can fuck up your body, it's scary to think if having twins. It's not the same for everyone of course - some people have easier pregnancies, some people have easier babies - some find pregnancy very difficult and then get demon babies 😁You're only 28 (same age I was when I got pregnant first time) why put your body under extra strain - I have never been the same since having DS, not everybody is lucky and has things go smoothly. Maybe that's borrowing trouble and I don't mean to scaremonger, but I honestly don't think we talk enough about the lifelong impacts pregnancy has for some people, and multiples raise the risk for so many things. Though I suppose you could say two singleton pregnancies is a strain in a different way. I think it's a bit of a shame your husband is so dead set on this being the only way he can see himself having more than one child, I think that's putting unfair pressure on you.

So if you have twins your husband will be attempting to do his job from home with 2 periodically screaming new babies and you and his MIL. It's going to be tough with one baby. Two would break most people

This is what DH has said, transfer one and let fate decide whether we get a 241 situation. As the risks are still rather high for all IVF pregnancies, my irrational brain just won’t let me get out of the idea of forcing fate somewhat.

Although I definitely am concerned about more than 2, and the two splitting into 3 or even 4.

Mum would have to move in next door if that were to happen 😅

My closest friend is currently 4 months pregnant and honestly seeing the shit she has gone through with one has made me worry it would be so much worse with a multiple pregnancy. She was suffering so much we were convinced it was twins (her DH is a quad and she has twins in the family) and was relieved at the 12 week scan, this should have been my sign it’s not a great idea

Oh yes the pregnancy was very hard on my previously healthy body. I had gestational diabetes and SPD due to the weight of them pressing on my pelvis. Went into labour and had them at 30 weeks, they spent 6 weeks in hospital which was a hellish experience for me and dh. Not all nicu staff are angels. Some of them are lazy, rude and negligent. I developed severe post natal depression (more common with mums of multiples) and had to have intensive physio for months after they were born to repair the muscular damage to my pelvis and back. Also had to have extensive psychological treatment for my pnd.

If you're lucky enough to carry to term and have the birth experience you want then great. But its never guaranteed and multiple pregnancies are more dangerous and likely to end up with interventions and premature birth.

Re your friend who has a regimented routine - is that the kind of parent you think you might be? Or do you want to be more laid back, go with the flow? Going with the flow is quite hard with 2 babies. I had to have a strict routine with mine because we kept them both to the same feeding schedule because it was easier to prop them both up and bottle feed at the same time (also did you have your heart set on breastfeeding? It can be done with twins, a friend of mine did but she found it very hard to get established. I couldn't do it because they were too premature and my milk never came in despite my best efforts) But I'm not really a regimented, scheduled kind of a person so i have found it hard to be like that - you can't just pop anywhere like you would with one baby.

So really - my advice is think about how you want your experience of having a baby to be. If you're regimented, efficient, not intending to breastfeed (or you want to but you're prepared that it might be hard) or sling, and you've got plenty of help for the first few years at least, you like being busy and love chaos maybe twins would suit you. If you want to be a babywearing, breastfeeding, easygoing type of mum, who wants a lie in every now and again maybe not so much.

Not saying all twin mums are like me, I'm sure some had a much easier time than me but you don't know what you're going to get.

@TerryJ94 if we let others see what life is really like behind closed doors then it probably would scare people off in terms of the chaos haha!

I would personally take it as positive that it’s not a definite no from your DH and make that decision about a second later down the line.

You should also think about when you and DH need a break - in my experience (and seeing friends who have only twins) family are more reluctant to look after twins than a singleton!

@Merryoldgoat it’s rare to have IVF for the hell of it. What a crass question

At your age l would stick with 1 embryo being transferred. There are lots of twins in my family and they are hard with

@AngelinaFibres see this is what I need to read!

that does in fact sound pretty horrifying, and the same would apply for me when we swap over, but without mum.

he might think of taking advantage of his work anywhere policy and relocate temporarily to a quiet beach in the middle of no where to escape! I’m sure I’d consider it if I were him in the situation as you described

thank you, I know I need all the grips given to me!

I have twins via our 5th IVF cycle. If your clinic is worth their salt, if you have a top notch embryo then they would recommend just the 1 embryo back - especially as its your first round.

Having twins is incredibly hard, mine are 3 years old now and to be honest it's stretched my marriage to breaking point. We are absolutely on the same page with regards to parenting but the tiredness and she sheer hard work of it just naturally puts so much pressure on you as a couple. None of your single baby friends will understand what you're going through. You'll find it hard to attend play groups etc. When they're older and they can toddle, unless you have an extra pair of hands helping you then playdates in the park with big wide open spaces are pretty much impossible, when they decide to run in different directions.

Then there's the pregnancy, I was at the hospital every week for scans before they arrived at 33 weeks. A stay in NICU isn't something any mother relishes but you are so much more likely to experience that with twins.

I love my girls more than life itself but please don't wish for twins as though it's 2 for the price of 1.

I really do wish you all the very best with your embryo transfer no matter what you choose xxx

If you were struggling with fertility and on the older side I'd say go for it, but because you are doing well financially, are young enough to go again and both fertile I'd say go for one this time.

It's so sad you've recently lost a relative in childbirth and that's going to be on your husband's mind with one never mind the higher risk of 2. I'd say have a think about how each of you would be able to cope if there was a complication with one or both of the twins too.

Also I've got an 8 month old and when he was a newborn I felt like I needed 10 hands just for him!!

I'm another twin mum. And I'm another one whose babies were born at 32 weeks and were very poorly in SCBU for quite a while, even though I had a relatively uncomplicated pregnancy. Emergency, scary birth experience where I nearly lost one of them.

In SCBU I nearly lost one of them a couple of weeks later.

In practical terms, are you planning to breastfeed? Not everyone can breastfeed twins because of the milk production. Also, if you do breastfeed twins, it's not the warm, fuzzy bonding experience because you're either juggling a baby on each breast simultaneously, or you're feeding one while the other is grumpy and screeching for their food.

Mother and baby groups? Very difficult. I used to envy all the mums going to the music and baby groups, with their baby on their knee bouncing along. Impossible with two. When they're a bit older and toddling, mother and toddler groups are equally hard because you're supposed to be supervising your child which is impossible if they're disappeared in different directions or you have to go and change one.

And then there's changing rooms. Quite often you can't fit a double buggy through the door. So when they're babies it's really hard to change them because what do you do with the other one? Put it on a filthy floor? Juggle it while trying to change the other wriggly baby? And obviously you'll have to remove all your valuables from the buggy while you leave it outside the door and hope that nobody nicks it.

Cars. You need a degree in engineering to break down some of the double buggies so they fit into a car. Some are great, but they don't always fold up particularly small. I had to buy a new car in the end as they just wouldn't fit. And even then I had to remove the parcel shelf permanently.

No slings. Impossible with two.

Really hard to do the night feeds with one parent.

The babies disturb each other when you're feeding/settling them for sleep. So you might have one that's a good sleeper but if the other one isn't, you'll end up with two bad sleepers.

You can't just pop anywhere with two babies. If you carry them both, you have no hands free for anything else.

Despite what some people will tell you, having twins is NOTHING like having two children close in age. Two newborns is not the same as a newborn and 1 yr old.

I remember going shopping and not being able to get into loads of shops with the buggy. Or being able to get in the entrance, but then not out of the exit. The littlest things are stupidly difficult. And if you think buggies are hated in shops/cafes etc, try having a double buggy.

Also, and I know you'll think this will never happen - but what if your babies have additional needs? Both of mine are autistic. Both. One with pretty high needs. Trying to meet both their needs simultaneously over the years has been so, so hard.

Having twins is incredibly magical and special, and there have been many wonderful, cute moments. But as a twin mum you miss out on so very much. You don't have that 1:1 time which is so special between a mum and her baby as there's nearly always another baby waiting.

Obviously, your DH's wishes are a whole different subject but just wanted to give you a view on the twin thing specifically. Also, I could go on re the difficulties - there's lots more but I think you get the picture 😅

I’d like to think I’d be a laid back parent, but based on all evidence available I’d definitely be more a schedule mum like my seasoned twin friend. If not worse tbh.

im sorry to hear about how awful your birthing experience was, and I hope you are in a better place after everything that happened 💐

we’d be having an elective section regardless of how many babies there are, but I do take on your comments around the birth concerns and things not being all rosey if there are complications, plus the additional PND risks.

thank you for sharing your experience, I really appreciate it

Not a twin mum, but I have two friends with twins (one a close friend). One has B/G and the other B/B.

The B/G mum loves it, but has a very supportive husband. She works part-time but they employ a full-time nanny, so she has help on her days off to give her some time off and as an extra pair of hands. That was really useful when the twins were running in different directions as she didn't feel confident with two by herself.

The B/B mum (my close friend) had found things more difficult. One twin has developmental delays and other issues which can be quite difficult to deal with. He is the loveliest little boy, but just needs a lot of attention to keep him safe and happy. It's very draining for her as she doesn't have a lot of help (including from her husband). The other twin necessarily misses out on attention sometimes and, since they are at such different stages, they don't really play together at all and the other twin will often tell the first one to go away, which is quite heartbreaking sometimes.

I've been out in parks and the playground regularly with them and it is a completely different ballgame with two! Completely different. It gets easier when they are a bit older (maybe 3+), but the panic when you've lost sight of one 2 year old but the other one is about to fall off the climbing-frame so you need to catch them and can't look for the other is something else! Even two adults to 3 children is quite a poor ratio when they're 2 and have no sense of danger. My friend would rarely go out of the house with both at one stage unless she could get someone to go with her or it was an enclosed space like softplay.

I don't know about IVF or twin pregnancies/newborns etc, but I am a mum of 3. My partner only wanted one child, but after seeing how much he adored our first, he was happy to have another (number 3 was a unexpected surprise!)

I think it would be easier to convince your husband to have a second child once you've had your first. I'm sure he'll love and adore your baby, and when they get older he may well be swung round to the idea of having a second to give your first a sibling but also because conceiving, giving birth and raising a baby is perhaps something he'd want to do a second time.

oh and just to add - nursery fee's!!

My girls go to nursery for 1.5 days a week - because of how May fell - as in more nursery days than most months - I paid them £801.00 - FOR 1.5 DAYS PER WEEK!!

I’m so sorry to hear how tough the first part of your babies lives were, I can only imagine how painful that is as a mother. It’s definitely not something I am minimising, it’s just at the moment my irrational brain is taking over and I am just not processing the risks (not sure that makes sense but still)

am not fussed re breastfeeding, my work gift all new parents a fancy breast pump (or a voucher for same value if they don’t want it) so was going to pump and see.

thank you for sharing all the practical issues I just didn’t (want) to consider, it’s helping bring me down to planet reality!

One in four sets of twins end in NICU.

I was one of those 4, my mum had an extremely difficult pregnancy and her body ended up going to preterm labour at 22 weeks. Me and my twin weee born at 27 weeks.
I survived and she didn't. I was developmentally behind and didn't catch up fully until I was 6. The birth nearly killed my mum. All 3 of us were given the last rights and I didn't leave the hospital until 6 months old and was then shortly readmitted until 10ish months.

Please don't think I'm being morbid. There's a 3 in 4 chance your twins won't go to NICU, but the risks of having twins both on you and the babies are real, and realistic.

I understand why you want to. But people 'romanticising' about twins really gets to me.

The risk of preterm labor and premature birth are heightened when there is more than one baby in the womb. 1 Other conditions such as preeclampsia, placental dysfunction, and twin-to-twin transfusion syndrome are more prevalent in twin pregnancy and increase the risk of an early delivery. 54% of twins are born prematurely. I would think about the risks, more than the idea of having twins.

Again, I don't mean to offend anybody. Having twins is such a beautiful thing and I wish the situation was different for me and my twin sister. Everybody's situation is different and medical science has moved on since 1994. You say you've read the leaflets for the risks, but please really research into it. People need to stop romanticising about multiple pregnancies. Having 1 baby is hard. (My DD was conceived via IVF) and I couldn't imagine recovering from my section with 2 babies. But people can, and do, and raise twins beautifully.

All the best OP in whichever you do.

"my heart is just so set on it."

Then go for it! It seems you have financial security, and DH and family support. Of course it's doable. I always hoped to have twins because they "run in the family". But no such luck.
There is 13 months between my sons, and by the time they were 2 & 3 they were often taken for twins

Having had several cycles of icsi, all 2ET, but only 1 DC, I would got for 2ET every time.

I’m so sorry about your sister and the really awful and heartbreaking time your mother must have had during this time too.

I really appreciate you sharing this as it’s helpful to see the less rosey realities of twins. Definitely not morbid, I need all the grips I can get, I’m definitely romanticising the idea and with such a shirt timescale to decide it’s been difficult to budge this view without outside help.