To not get a job because I’m a sahm

[velvetcandy]

So after 8 years being a sahm I’ve decided to go back to work. Had a very good interview last week, the role was actually half the salary I had before I had kids and a lower position but still the same area of work etc.

the feedback was, that I was perfect but they were worried because I’ve been out of work for so long so gave the job to a recent grad. I have over ten years experience plus a degree.

aibu to think this is unfair?

It's a difficult one if they need someone in at a particular time, then it's not do-able for them, can't you get a breakfast club that day??

I agree tho focus on getting the job then negotiate intricate details.

I've recently interviewed for an admin role at work it's 22.5 hours and we need this worked over 3 days as it's a jobshare with a 1 day overlap on Wednesday so the hours are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday 8-4 with half an hour for lunch
I interviewed 6 people
4 of them wanted to do 9:30-2 kind of hours over 5 days
The advert clearly stated the hours and that it was a jobshare

Then as we got talking about it not really working I did point out to them all that if we did that, that would mean they had 5 days of childcare to cover in holidays as their annual leave doesn't cover all the holidays. I also said if it was a nursery situation it's only 3 days and some places won't charge for half days. None of them had clearly thought about that!!!
I was really nice about it and explained as a working Mum myself I understand the situation.
We offered to someone who read the advert, knew the hours and was happy to work them - who has 2 kids and has had 3 years out so it can work out but you just need to have a plan for childcare etc....

You've misread @Everydayisabadhairday . The email that was proposed to OP and OP thought it would be a good idea to send is what Misslucy is talking about. OP didn't say she has sent it, but she said it was a good idea and that she would. Hence the utility of advising her not to.

Asking for feedback is normal, but many employers flat won't give it because of the percentage of candidates who respond to it aggressively and/or try to argue that they are still the best person for the job.

Can you do agency work or freelancing to get some recent experience. I've done this after a much longer career break and it led to me getting a great role. I agree, don't mention anything "negative" in the interview, leave it to negotiations afterwards. Also don't mention kids as it none of their business why you took a career break and they shouldn't ask.

Don't let it knock your confidence. I had one great interview and one awful one within a few days.

I can also see both sides for this, for them you are long term unemployed. A decade is a long time and without a doubt things will have moved on, plus you are not used to full time employment any more. Going back in can be a shock to the system,

the grad will have demonstrated an ability that,you didn’t, sometimes it’s not all about experience, which is what you seem to think, that the person with the most experience wins, that’s not the case. Many softer skills also apply. Inc ability to progress etc.

in addition by saying you would come in thirty mins late and leave thirty mins later that day you basically told them you work to rule, you do your hours and no more. To the extent you even count it in thirty min slots. Many employers now want more flexibility than that. And not someone who runs out at 5 on the dot.

it’s just one job, keep trying,and if this was a company that don’t employ parents/mothers then you have had a lucky escape.

And no one will employ you.

The graduate will do the stated hours and more. They have no one to drop off /pick up. No one is going to be ill, have sports day, nativity play etc etc. If you start bringing family issues in at the interview you have shot yourself in the foot. The whole business about running a home,doing accounts, managing multiple things just doesn't wash. Working parents do all this and work at the same time. I worked as a teacher for 20 years. There are an awful lot of parents ,sahm and working, who live in utterly chaotic, badly run homes. Just because you are a sahm doesn't mean you are automatically doing a good job .

but don't give up, OP, the more people we can get into the workplace who also have caring responsibilities, the better it will get for everyone.

Right now we have to work within the "system" we have, much as a lot of it sucks, because we aren't going to change anything by being outside looking in.

I wouldn't call it "unfair".

Ask yourself this. 8 years after you did your GCSE maths, did you retain all that info & skills? Probably not 100%, because you were off doing different things, learning new stuff, not practising the maths etc.

Jobs are no different. 8 years is a hell of a long time. In my industry you'd struggle to get back in the door and you'd definitely pretty much have to start from scratch building experience.

It's why so many people recommend you keep something while you have young kids, even a day or two a week keeps your skills and experience valid.

Oh and the starting 30 mins late will be a non point.

It will be the 8 year gap driving their decision, not the one day flexibility over 30 mins.

But surely it's up to the employers to decide who is the 'best person'?

If they prefer a new graduate with current skills rather than someone who's been out of the workplace for 8 years, then that is their right.

I'm sure discrimination does happen, but there's no evidence that that is the case here.

^Most working mothers do all the stuff SAHMs do and do their jobs b
i wouldn’t be impressed by SAHM banging on about running their home etc^

This. I'm a working mum and I'd be bloody unimpressed by a candidate expecting me to consider running the home as in any way relevant in a job interview.

I'd say that depends on the job. The OP hasn't told us much about what line of work she's in, but some jobs really don't have much room for 'flexibility'.

Plus, as others have said, to bring it up at the interview stage might suggest that she'll be looking for more 'flexibility' down the line.

We have all worked with the women (men dont seem to do this) who always have issues and are clockwatching. As a PP said you do sound as though you are clock watching in 30 min slots. You will never be available to help out in an emergency - you could say that's fine you arent paid for that but I have worked over the years with women who are CONSTANTLY asking for flexibility i.e must have school holidays off, never around much in the run up to Xmas, I worked in a sector for years where it was not unusual for a tender to come in from the public sector (twats who did this!) on 24th Dec to be responded to by 1st Jan.

I then worked in retail where NO ONE was allowed Xmas/Easter off. I would definitely do some volunteer work. Being out of the workplace for nearly 10 years is huge. Has it been mentioned what sector it is? I have found even though I have never had a break in working that my Excel skills are nothing like my DS's. I manage but I am at the end of my career and have taken a step back and its lovely!

I have only heard of people negotiating times etc when they have been offered a job and before accepting. The main reason I suspect was exactly as they said- 8 years out of the workplace is a long time. Things change. If you'd have kept your toes in a bit or done something like volunteering that they could have sought a recent reference from then probably be okay.

the more people we can get into the workplace who also have caring responsibilities, the better it will get for everyone.

There are loads of people in the workplace who have caring responsibilities. I work in a huge company and am surrounded by working mums in senior roles!

A childfree individual who took 8 years off work to go travelling would face the same problem OP has. A friend took an extended period away from work because she had an opportunity to represent her country as an athlete, and it took her ages to get back in properly when she returned to "normal" work.

’..men don’t seem to do this’ well no, caus there’s usually a women run bloody ragged facilitating him to be 100% present in the work place, don’t you think? Especially when they are a married/partnered father.

I feel saddened that even working mothers expect other working mothers to work like they are not mothers… not everyone has the same ‘village’ or same flexible working/willing husband/Co parent.

why the op didn’t get the job, to be perfectly honest none of us know- but the narrative on display on this thread is so very out of touch with supporting mothers/primary care givers into the work place - which we should be doing, to avoid (let’s face it, mainly women) women losing all financial independence and completely burning out from the juggle.

I feel luckier at my place of work than I did before reading this thread.

men don’t seem to do this’ well no, caus there’s usually a women run bloody ragged facilitating him to be 100% present in the work place, don’t you think? Especially when they are a married/partnered father.

then more fool the woman. I’m sorry but it’s true.

@Everydayisabadhairday I never said they chose the 'best person'. I said they chose the person they wanted for the job. And I never said anything about discrimination not happening. I'm well aware of it thanks.

It's naive to think you would be automatically more suitable for a job because you have '10 years experience' over the chosen candidate.

Fullsome… in theory, I agree. In reality it is much more nuanced.

ultimately if both parents ‘stand firm’ and don’t respond to collect a sick child for example? who actually suffers. The child.

a good first step in supporting women to not be expected (at a society and family level) is for BOTH parents (and all those with caring responsibility) to be supported and it not be a mammoth task to fit work life and home life together.

Agree. Plus your degree would be classed as quite dated - I have recently started a second degree and they didn't even take my first one into consideration as any degree from over 10 years ago is not very relevant to some organisations.

To the PP. I spent years and years and so did my colleagues 'supporting' other working mothers who massively took advantage. So - No - you cover and support them. I am done with being used like that!

PS: I am a working Mum. Children are grown up now but 100% I know what its like!

So you have raised children, ran a home, managed accounts and done 100 other roles but they choose someone who has never held down a full time job. Brainless

And a working parent doesn't run a home, raise children, manage their finances (it's not accounts, it's your own money) or do any of the other things a SAHP does?

Banging on about these imagined 'jobs' a SAHP does is ridiculous and makes them sound infantile. If I was interviewing and someone came in talking about 'oh I've been a cook, a cleaner, chauffeur, managed accounts, coached sports because I've been a stay at home mummy' tinkly laugh they wouldn't be shortlisted. Every day tasks that are done by everyone regardless of working status aren't jobs.

In OPs case the graduate was deemed better suited by the employer. Whether that's because the OP asked for flexibility, droned on about her dc or the graduate simply had more experience we don't know. Work placements are common for graduates so they could have had recent experience.

OP hasn't said what kind of work it is, there are certainly jobs where that 30 mins is a no go. For example education, childcare, retail, customer or client facing roles, some healthcare. In any role where starting 30 minutes late would cause a problem and finishing 30 minutes late would add no or little benefit of course the employer wouldn't agree to it.

Wow I can’t keep up with all these messages.

so what everyone’s basically saying is go back to work asap after you’ve had kids even though the majority of your pay check will be spent on childcare, additionally if you do take some time out still somehow use/update your skills that you can’t technically access unless you’re at work and also give your services away for free by volunteering because obviously once you have kids that renders your experience as void. Love mums net

feel saddened that even working mothers expect other working mothers to work like they are not mothers… not everyone has the same ‘village’ or same flexible working/willing husband/Co parent.

But in essence you are saying employers need to offer lots of flexibility to women, who are mothers so those women can accommodate their partners and run round even more.

Thats not helpful for women. Surely it should be employers of father that are being pushed to offer flexibility and have cultures where it’s viewed as positive in their employees. That would actually help women, who are running round because the father is shit.

Flexible working should be offered wherever possible to everyone possible. Kids or no kids.

But when you are what op requested at interview, along with lack or recent experience and inability to demonstrate they have kept up to their industry, it’s going to put people off.
My company employs returning Sahms all the time. When they are the best fit for the job.

We aren’t going to employ Sahms just on the basis that they were Sahms or give them something we can’t offer others in the same job.

No.

People are saying that if you take an extended period out of work, then that is going to have consequences for your future desirability to employers, as you are now finding out.

Nobody owes you a job. I'm starting to wonder if you understand that.