To not get a job because I’m a sahm

[velvetcandy]

So after 8 years being a sahm I’ve decided to go back to work. Had a very good interview last week, the role was actually half the salary I had before I had kids and a lower position but still the same area of work etc.

the feedback was, that I was perfect but they were worried because I’ve been out of work for so long so gave the job to a recent grad. I have over ten years experience plus a degree.

aibu to think this is unfair?

Because interview isn’t an appropriate time to discuss flexible working arrangements. And it’s never an appropriate time to just inform an employer of your differing working hours. Like salary, it’s best negotiated at the point of offer. OP isn’t requesting anything massively different to the hours they’re expecting, so it’s not like she’s saying yes to the hours then turning round and saying she can only work half of them.

It would be interesting to know why the children’s dad couldn’t get flexibility instead, and why it is OPs responsibility.

Op just a note my daughter had braces. Apts at 5pm. I waited til in the job to say it (temping). But she had kids. V nice about it. Know what you mean the workplace is hard for mothers. Its not that flexible. Best of luck

so, when asked directly about the working arrangements in an interview (as the OP was..) would you.. lie? Spring your request on them afterwards? it’s an interesting approach.

Maybe dad takes care of the other 4 days? Op was only asking for an adjustment on one day afterall.

As pp have said, Op you’ve dodged a bullet- though of course it doesn’t feel that way right now and missing out on any job is hard- more so when you have been told you were ‘perfect’, agin poor handling on their part.. you’ll find better.

You are right about it being the kids. It is a fact that women shoulder the main burden of getting kids to school and covering illness. Employers prefer people without these responsibilities. In your next interview say nothing and don't even mention your kids if you can avoid it.

The other way to look at it is they may have been worried you wouldn't stay and use them as a stepping stone to something better once you get recent work experience

if they can't be flexible about half an hour once a week honestly can you imagine what they'll be like if you have a poorly child?

Since having my daughter I won't work for anyone who isn't a parent themselves. They sadly seem to be the only people who truly get it, and who value my skills, experience and output more than the exact time I start and finish work every day

Ah, ok. So when you catch a bus or train, you’re cool with it leaving half an hour late, because the driver wanted a later start? And you don’t mind having to drop your DD at her nursery or school half an hour late, because the staff need to start late? And it’s no problem if your A&E dept/police station/fire brigade aren’t open when they’re supposed to be, because the staff are starting late?

Flexibility on start times is easy for some employers, impossible for others. Some organisations have to be open at a certain time. Giving a new employee a late start, when everyone else has to get there earlier may cause huge resentment, or make filling a rota impossible. It doesn’t seem to have occurred to the OP that her requirements would have an impact on anyone else. And I suspect that is why she didn’t get the job.

It's interesting that everyone is assuming that the person who got the job is young and has no kids. They could just as easily be a mature student with a family of their own.

@Hankunamatata I wondered that as well. Given that the salary was half of what the OP previously earned, the company may have assumed that she’d just brush up her skills and move on after a few months. Perhaps that’s happened in the past. Whereas a recent graduate might want to get a couple of years’ of experience with their first employer. Or not, who knows what they were thinking.

@Chillyseadippin (sorry didn’t want to quote as it gets annoying for everyone to scroll through!!) I wouldn’t make an absolute agreement to work the hours, but if it’s just a small adjustment in a role that can be flexible (a lot can’t) then I don’t see any reason to bring it up at interview.

Although I guess it doesn’t matter too much when it’s bought up because if it’s not feasible for them than that’s fair and fine. They don’t have to consider flexible working requests. Guess it depends on if OP would decline the job if they couldn’t accommodate it. If she would then it doesn’t matter if she brings it up at interview and they don’t offer her the job because of it, because either way she wouldn’t have the job. If it’s not a dealbreaker then there’s no reason to put them off at that stage.

Yea it is technically possible the father is picking up the other 4 days, but I don’t think you can deny it’s often the mother that’s expected to be flexible with hours (and other things such as picking up ill children) while the mans apparently ultra more important job must be prioritised at all costs. Happy to be corrected OP and I hope the dad is doing his fair share!

There’s a huge spectrum of blow-softening positive responses below “perfect” before you get to “you’re shit”.

I mean, I'm not saying it's ideal, but I suspect the person who sent the rejection letter wasn't remotely involved with the interview - it would have just been a cut/paste job from a list of reasons the company has on file.

next time I would not bring this up until actually offered.
i have recently gone back to work after several years out as a sahm so don’t be too put off. The job market is good atm.

OP didn’t bring it up. They did..
I agree if course that to bring it up cold would be unwise (see previous post about having to pretend you’re not a primary care giver….) but, if they ask- honestly surely.

yes , of course Dad should be pulling his weight- no denying that from me :)

to be fair, the company sound poorly versed in interview etiquette and OP can do better.

I am sure its already been suggested but do some voluntary work to get your CV up to date.

I would be reluctant to hire someone so long out of the work place. Particularly, the last two years. The world of work has changed enormously in the last two years (in my sector anyway) that I would be concerned that you wouldn't be equipped for that.

I would also suggest that negotiating on terms and conditions should not take place during an interview.

So you have raised children, ran a home, managed accounts and done 100 other roles but they choose someone who has never held down a full time job. Brainless.

The idea that a SAHM can write "CEO of the family" on her CV and that be taken seriously is - if it was ever true that companies took it seriously - so far out of date it's lost in the mists of time.

Frankly? Companies have a lot of choice. A LOT. They literally don't care about your life outside work, no matter how much nonsense they spout about being a happy family and a team and work-life-balance. We all know that, overwhelmingly, when push comes to shove working mothers will be the ones who want time-off at short notice, can't attend team events (dinners etc for the soft networking) etc etc.

We don't like it, it's not right but the "work as though you don't have a family, parent as though you don't have a job" is what applies here. As an employer, my assumption is that when I'm interviewing someone who has replied to a vacancy which outlines the requirements, is that they have checked their qualifications and support system and can provide me with what i need. If I'm not offering flexible working, then i am not offering flexible working - although to get the right candidate i might be willing to negotiate.

Also, OP, you may just have to face facts: you were on a shortlist and someone was better. That happens a lot, don't lose heart, the more you apply, the more interviews you'll get and eventually you'll land something.

When all those little humans are graduates themselves, you’ll be glad of employers giving young people a chance when they’ve had no opportunity to gain experience previously.

That's very strange feedback, OP, as is the fact they told you so much detail about who they DID offer to.

They don't seem good on process & etiquette, so you may have dodged a bullet.

Good luck with your search.

the role was actually half the salary I had before I had kids and a lower position but still the same area of work etc.

This is your mistake, surely. You've pitched yourself too low and into a very crowded market. You shouldn't be up against new grads with your experience. You need to be looking at roles which are closer to the level you were at pre-children.

Most working mothers do all the stuff SAHMs do and do their jobs b
i wouldn’t be impressed by SAHM banging on about running their home etc

I totally agree with the comments about you pitching yourself too low do not ever go back to the bottom of the ladder, if people think that you have no confidence in yourself and your own ability they won’t have any either.

And I do not even mention the fact that I have children despite the fact that I have gaps on my CV that obviously allude to maternity leave and if anybody would dare to raise it they would receive one of my hard stares in return.

if you do actually require flexibility and there’s no way around it you have to start at 9:30 you literally with as much authority and confidence as you can muster state the fact that you will need to start at 9:30 you do not apologise and you do not offer an explanation.

If you want to get a job after a long period as a SAHP, you need to understand the situation from the employer's perspective.

Hiring is a high stakes thing. You have to make a decision based on relatively small amounts of evidence and experience. A good employee can add several times their annual salary in value. But a bad hire can cost you many, many times that, and a chunk of your sanity to boot. Someone returning to the workplace after many years out is inherently a much bigger risk than someone who is currently employed, because they give a hiring manager almost zero ability to check on what they're like generally as an employee. Will they be reliable? Will they have reasonable expectations? Will they be capable of working productively with the rest of the team? The employer has no way of knowing. What you did ten years ago in another life pre kids is way too far away to tell anything. Plus, in many fields, your subject knowledge has gone out of date too.

That's why it's harder. That's why you generally have to accept a big step down. You're asking a hiring manager to take a big gamble basically on faith, without a big chunk of the risk mitigation an employer gets from going for someone currently employed. That's why it matters to have current references from volunteering, or having done recent online courses to boost your knowledge up again. It shows you can understand what's likely to be needed of you, that you can be proactive and have someone to verify that you have the core interpersonal skills to be successful and not make your employer's life a misery.

I think you're massively over reaching, if you're going to have your confidence knocked after achieving a second interview but not getting the job, you're not going to get far.

Sorry, not RTFT but @velvetcandy have you looked into the many, many return to work placements out there? Have a google. It's what i used to get back into the work market.

If it's a role that can be done by a recent grad then by definition it is a role which does not require experience. I completely agree with the pp who have said that you are pitching yourself at the wrong end of the job market.

Agreed. This sort of thing makes people look really hopeless and out of touch.

You’ve had lots of conflicting advice, op, but to add a bit more, I’d suggest looking at temporary roles and maternity cover. The frustration for a returner (IME) is that you know things have probably changed a bit but you’d adapt incredibly quickly to those changes once you got a chance. Maternity cover roles are easier to get and give you enough recent experience that your time out shouldn’t matter after that.

I’d also bear in mind it’s all a bit of a numbers game.