To not get a job because I’m a sahm

[velvetcandy]

So after 8 years being a sahm I’ve decided to go back to work. Had a very good interview last week, the role was actually half the salary I had before I had kids and a lower position but still the same area of work etc.

the feedback was, that I was perfect but they were worried because I’ve been out of work for so long so gave the job to a recent grad. I have over ten years experience plus a degree.

aibu to think this is unfair?

Keeping your skills up to date is not impossible while not working and if you’ve not done it you’ve no business to see your arse about a graduate with more up to date skills being offered a job over your historic experience

I imagine all of those here saying that the company is mad to have hired a young person over an experienced mum will change their tune once it's their children trying to get their first job.

All I'm hearing from this thread is that it's unfair to not make a mum the first choice candidate for a job, even if her skills and experience are totally out of date and she can't actually work the hours stated. I think that's bonkers.

(Childless employee of 20+ years here, constantly covering the shit shifts, the post 5pm urgent tasks, the summer holidays, the Christmases... which is fine, I get it, but I'm not exactly seeing huge evidence of the supposed efficiency, loyalty and hard work that is apparently unique to mums!)

I think you may need to read through all these many messages again to truly get it,@velvetcandy .

You come across as having a bit of an attitude, and that MAY have across in your interview.

Well no, but similarly you can't expect to walk back into a job 8 years later without them wanting a bit of recent experience. It's not having children that makes it so, as a previous poster said someone who had been out of the workplace for any reason for that period of time is unlikely to be more favourable than someone with recent experience and qualifications. It's not their issue if you feel volunteering (in any capacity not even in a workplace) is beneath you.

Its also a bit of an incorrect assumption that having skills above and beyond a job role means its likely you'll get it. For starters there's actually a lot of competition for lower paid jobs as there's a bigger pool of people who can apply for them, as appose to a well paid and desirable job that requires x, y and z to apply; that pool will be smaller. Experience doesn't necessarily relate to the role either, we have a lot of people who have done professional jobs who want a step back but haven't actually ever done the admin type work. Yes I'm sure they're capable, but I'd prefer a candidate who has done the job before.

No. One of those is preferable if you want a higher chance at being employed quickly when you return.

You can keep a foot in by keeping up with your industry. You could do additional training in preparation to go back.

No one said being a mum renders your experience void. And if that’s the attitude you have, you will struggle.

Being out of the workforce for 8 years means your experience is less relevant and, often, outdated. Nothing to do with being a Mother.

Depending on the job there are also free courses you can do online that show a refresh of skills.

That's how a lot of us kept our career going. I went back to work when my child was 4 months old, and yes, my entire pay check and more went to pay for childcare for a couple of years. It made sense as a long term strategy and it paid off.

Your long term strategy was different and I'm sure your children have loved having you at home. You just have to deal with the consequences and accept that you'll have to put more effort in now to get a job. You will manage but it would be illogical to think you are going to find it easy

They sound shit because they didn't want to be flexible on one day. Think you had a lucky escape op. It's not like they got someone with experience either, they got a graduate, who despite knowing a lot perhaps hasn't worked in the environment and that's a lot different to uni. So they've taken someone easily persuadable basically over someone with commitments. Crap company, feel sorry for the graduate.

Onviously your requirements and lack of recent skills/experience was not apporpriate for this particular company, so don't blame them.
Your choice to have kids

Cheque (unless you are American)

I learnt you cant get back to work after massive gaps and expect good wages. Op its hard I had to take crappy work to build up my cv. Thats the reality of not working long term. Good advice on this thread

this!

But what of everyone wanterd to do that? how do you run a company efficiently if you are bending over backwards to accommodate 'just a half-hour once a week...'

unless that's a deal-breake, in which case they have to start the process again. That's just selfish to announce ones requirements after accepting job

no it is not sex discrimination for god's sake

Not at all. But if you want to take 8 years out you have to accept that you will likely struggle to get back in to your chosen career. There are ways to stay up to date via training or even part time work but you made the decision to step away and now have to take responsibility for yourself.

You also need to accept that your children are not your employers or colleagues problem and no one owes you anything. Flexibility can be requested but a) will be accepted only when it's advantageous to the employer and b) there are rules around how long you have to be employed before you can request it. If you want flexible working from the off you'll need to research the company before applying and find some with the culture you want.

We have a fairly good maternity culture in UK workplaces. You can take a year off and in most cases return to you previous job.

I am also a working parent, took 9/10 months off after dc were born, did KIT days in the latter part of that and then dropped a day for the first year after that. I found a job that offers the flexibility I want while still offering progression opportunity, share childcare with my dh who does half of the drop offs/pick ups and sick days.

@velvetcandy how are you feeling now? I had an interview yesterday and they said I was too old for maternity leave as if it was a bonus that makes me more employable….…. I’m 35!!! It’s so disheartening!

I am more than just my ovaries, I have a brain too

OP hasn't said what kind of work it is, there are certainly jobs where that 30 mins is a no go. For example education, childcare, retail, customer or client facing roles, some healthcare. In any role where starting 30 minutes late would cause a problem and finishing 30 minutes late would add no or little benefit of course the employer wouldn't agree to it.

It's become very clear with all the WFH threads over the past two years that many MNers have jobs where precise timekeeping doesn't matter, or at least that's what they claim.

There have been so many posts along the lines of "Oh, my team are so flexible and don't mind if I take an hour out at lunch time to pick up the kids, or an afternoon off to attend little Johnny's sports day. I'm so much more productive WFH and as long as the work gets done, that's all that matters."

Which of course is fine if it's true for them. But only a minority of jobs are so flexible. In many if not most jobs, half an hour one day a week is a big deal. Would the OP be happy if she was late for work because the train driver wanted 'flexibility' on a Thursday morning?

I've recently been recruiting for someone new in my department, an interesting admin post with prospects (I'll be retiring soon). I've been through this exercise before so I have experience of the process. I have noticed that if you recruit someone who is over qualified for the job they tend not to stay for long and the whole expensive and inconvenient process has to be repeated. This time I've interviewed a number of applicants who could do the job but their experience is in something a little different. One swanned in like lady bountiful and said that now she had left the corporate world she had a passion for organising people like me ( third sector) others seemed taken aback at having to learn a new software system. I offered to one of the younger and less experienced applicants because she was genuinely enthusiastic, her IT skills were really good and bang up to date and she had the right attitude. She turned down the job and we then took on a very capable older person who did exactly the same job for another organisation. I'm sure it wasn't OP's SAHM status that scuppered her, she was probably just not the best fit and saying anything about your family in interview is not a good idea. Recruitment is not riddled with prejudice, we just want to get someone in the post we think will stay, will do a good job and be a valued member of the team. For this job the hours are written in stone, I have to have the office manned at all times, I have agreed slight variations for people who have been with us a while but asking for something different in interview would really put me off the applicant.

StageRage · 11/05/2022 18:38
It’s the reality of sex discrimination by the back door.
I wonder if they even asked the graduate if they could do the hours. It is very poor Equal Opps practice to ask different questions of different candidates,,,

but they didn't ask the OP either. She volunteered the information and tried to change the working hours during the interview. I would be weary as well if I was the employer. By the time she got to the interview, she should have made plans about who was going to take care of the child during those 30 minutes. IMO, the time to ask for flexibility is when you are already part of the company and you've had time to prove yourself, not before you even join them.

Why? running a house was not a required skill for this job. The other candidate simply had the skills or attitude which were more suitable, so they were offered the job. Fresh graduated can be very good at time-keeping and other life skills. It is not exclusive to people who have run a household!

I graduated when I was 27, and had been living on my own since I was 16. Not every fresh graduate comes without life experience!

And even if 'running a household' were a required skill, we have no idea how good the OP is.

For all any of us knows, her house could be a mess, with bills unpaid, children sat in front of the telly all day, dishes piling up in the sink. I'm sure that's not the case, but we just don't know. Just because a person happens to be a mum who doesn't work, doesn't mean that you're super efficient.

Was your profession/ role previously not that competitive?
I say that because you don't seem to understand that the jobs market is a market... You are in competition with other candidates, often thorougout your career.
I paid (well the family finances paid- it was a net loss me working after childcare) for me to to return to work after maternity because I knew taking 3 to 5 years out would make it incredibly hard for me to return. I would have been out of date in skills terms and out of practice with my existing skills. Of course I could have made that decision like you did, but I do think you need to accept it and week out how you can become competitive for the roles you would like.

The Op has had a number of suggestions and observations from people actually in the world of work now and people who have recruited.

I am not sure she is getting it and thinks because she worked over 8 years ago and wants some flexibility on the hours from the get go that she will be snapped up.

If we knew the sector it might help. I stepped down from the corporate world. After 35 years I felt I was done. The money wasnt so important. I now work part time and draw my work pension and STILL people tell me I am lucky as though my decision making was all luck.

We make decisions based on what is best for us. Some work out and some dont. All I would say is never turn your back on the world of work or expect people to be interested in why you need to go at 1530 every term for parents afternoon or that your son isnt very well and needs you to be there.

I also suspect having been out of work for such a long time that they have forgotton the right way to do things which is wait until they offer you a role, or even better start at the stated hours and then find an opportunity to see whether you can make some changes. Certainly dont start telling them what you can and cannot do when the hours are stated in the jd.

And for gods sake please no more CEO of the Home etc

Both my children were graduates. They had plenty of work experience before graduating. There was no way I was letting either of them not work during the endless holidays. One took a gap year and travelled and then when the pandemic hit took a role in a food factory as an essential worker.

The grad could have had the equilivant of 2 years experience in the world of work plus all the Excel, Word, Powerpoint skills that I certainly dont have. I can get by of course but looking at how one of my sons handles a spreadsheet is very impressive.