To not get a job because I’m a sahm

[velvetcandy]

So after 8 years being a sahm I’ve decided to go back to work. Had a very good interview last week, the role was actually half the salary I had before I had kids and a lower position but still the same area of work etc.

the feedback was, that I was perfect but they were worried because I’ve been out of work for so long so gave the job to a recent grad. I have over ten years experience plus a degree.

aibu to think this is unfair?

Have you done any volunteering or studying in the 8 years you’ve been off? I wouldn’t see a gap as total red flag but I probably would if there was literally nothing you could talk about during that time

And if the person doing the interviewing is a working mother herself, she will be even less impressed.

What @GregBrawlsInDogJail said and anyone in interview going on about ‘managing the home’ as relevant would have it swiftly terminated.

for me, the biggest question mark would not be you using the company as a stepping stone as anyone can do that, but your actual commitment to a FT permanent position. 8 years out of the workplace is a really long time and my experience is children need you more the older they get, rather than the toddler years. You’d need to demonstrate commitment to returning to the workplace through volunteering/whatever just as much as skills.

I’d also wonder why it’s come up in interview re. the flexible working needed. That sounds like an easily accommodated requested/non-issue to me but wait to be offered first. Raising all this at interview might be you being transparent or could be perceived you already have a list of requests/barriers to working. My advice is wait to be offered and then negotiate.

if you do actually require flexibility and there’s no way around it you have to start at 9:30 you literally with as much authority and confidence as you can muster state the fact that you will need to start at 9:30 you do not apologise and you do not offer an explanation.

🤣

It is bad luck OP. You were the wrong fit for this particular role. Don’t dwell on it.

Is there any retraining you could do to add to your job skills set, like a PM course? I spent a year doing every imaginable course to add to my skill set and at 51 I am about to start a new career which builds on my previous experience. Much better paid. The company seems very chaotic but as a stepping stone to Director Level I'm pretty happy.

Jesus, don't do this. They gave the job to another candidate. I can't imagine someone coming back to me with this attitude. OP wasn't entitled to the job, it wasn't hers and then they took it away. There was a better candidate.

Absolutely don't take this approach.

Take on board the feedback here - are you up to date with technological changes?

The maturity isn't shining through from OP's responses, TBF.

Sadly I can understand their logic. This is really normal. I’ve seen it happen to loads of friends of mine after they’ve been a SAHM for a few years. You’re best of temping for a bit and get more current experience that way.

It would be a kindness to those of us who have asked you for advice on how to do this, to give us some clues as to how you have managed it. It's such an issue for anyone out of the job market that your help might well make the difference for others between getting back into the job market.

You had a lot of support in this thread, making it a bit odd that you have been silent on this matter.

I had a similar experience where I was very upfront about my family situation and my willingness to travel into an office quite far away frequently. This was deliberate as I only want to work for an employer who is super flexible (as is my current employer). I didn’t get the job - with the feedback that I was too experienced (the role would have been a huge step up for me) and that I was not the right “cultural fit”. I’m pretty sure it was because I was clear in the interview on my needs/boundaries.
fir you it’s a slightly different scenario because you need to get back into the workplace so if I were you I wouldn’t bring up your need for flexibility until after you’re offered a job. Get the initial experience you need and if your employer turns out to be a pain around childcare stuff then at least you have some experience under your belt and will find it easier to get a new job

Bad luck OP but dont let this put you off

Next time, leave the conversation about working hours until after the offer

Just say childcare is all arranged and then bring it upon offer

Men dont get asked these questions

There will be other companies who see the merits of hiring an experienced person like you with a proven track record than a grad who could end up being totally wrong for the job

Yes I agree with this - it's fairly tricky for them to back out once they've actually offered the job to you. And if you then tried to negotiate a change in start time but they disagree, you could still not accept the job. But start trying to negotiate that before they've even offered it to you will be a bit of a red flag for many employers.

Seriously, for the love of all that is holy don't do this, unless you want to become an anecdote the hiring manager tells for the rest of their career. It's whiny, self-absorbed and out of touch and would be further confirmation that they made the right choice in not hiring you. Every job candidate thinks they were the best person for the job; acting like you think you know better than the person who is hiring for the job and conducted the interviews merely gets you put on the mental Do Not Hire, Ever list.

The best follow up now is to write an email, thanking them For their time and saying you're still interested and would love to be considered in the future should similar opportunities arise

Seriously, for the love of all that is holy don't do this, unless you want to become an anecdote the hiring manager tells for the rest of their career. It's whiny, self-absorbed and out of touch and would be further confirmation that they made the right choice in not hiring you. Every job candidate thinks they were the best person for the job; acting like you think you know better than the person who is hiring for the job and conducted the interviews merely gets you put on the mental Do Not Hire, Ever list

All of this. And managers move companies, and have friends in other companies. I'm often asked for informal feedback on job candidates.

The fact that the OP thought it was a good idea to send an aggressive email, demanding the manager's reasons, tells me everything about why she didn't get the job in the first place. I'd say it's the company that has dodged the bullet.

You weren't the right candidate for the job they were offering. That's how interviews work. Someone always looses out over the person they prefer.

If they're happy to discriminate against you because you have children, do you really want to work for them anyway? YANBU to be upset though. That was really shitty of them. Unfortunately a lot of employers don't want women with children or of child bearing age because it means they have to get their head out their arse and actually think about flexibility.

Id bet my house that they gave the job to a man.

You're very naive if you think every job is always given to the best person and nobody ever discriminates against job seekers. Its illegal but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I feel for you OP and YADNBU. You have all the experience and qualifications that you need, plus maturity. It is utterly ridiculous to see how little mothers are supported and valued. It's not like you've been in a crack den for the last decade.

There is a lot of discussion in the SAHM conversations about how long to stay away from the workplace etc. And everyone has a different opinion. Here's mine: don't. Don't stay away from the workplace longer than necessary, because an 8 year break is a long long time. I'm not sure I'd employ someone with that big gap, who immediately started asking for adjustments for their kids, when i could give the job to a recent graduate. I know the statistics about working mums being super efficient, and returning mums are on average more loyal to a company.

The reality is, and a lot of us who have struggled working with small children, see someone come in saying "yeah, super organised as a SAHM" and think "yep, i do all that as well" and then the candidate immediately comes out with "and I'll need a late start on x day because kids" and - if i were the interviewer - that would be Game Absolutely Over. Because in all my years i have always made sure that i have watertight plans, watertight plan B and watertight plan C. Sometimes at quite high monetary and emotional (stress) cost. But i have never ever given an employer any excuse to say that i don't put work first. (even though i actually never have). After you've started and shown reliability - then you can come waltzing in with adjustment requests.

I said the hours are fine apart from one day a week I need to be in at work at 9 instead of 8.30

Yeah, this is probably what killed it. It doesn't matter what the specifics are - requests for flexibility may be met.

However telling the recruiter at interview stage 'I NEED [insert deviation from advertised terms]' is never going to go down well. As a recruiter, this would ring alarm bells from the off for me.

Don't make shit up.

She got an email with feedback. Where does it go into any detail about the wording of any email she sent to them? How can you possibly know she was aggressive?

Asking for feedback is completely normal as im sure you would know if you were actually at all involved in recruitment.

It could be asking for the time to be moved. It could also be that you failed to convince them an 8 year gap without keeping your foot in or doing additional training, wasn’t going to be a problem.

The graduate may have been able to demonstrate that better in an interview format. Just telling them you can do it ‘cause I did it 8 years ago’ or ‘well I catch on quick’ isn’t enough.

They would have wanted to see you have kept up with changes and their impacts. Like it or not the graduate probably could display and detail their knowledge.

They may have really liked you. The person may use ‘perfect’ all the time when not meaning that. You may have been the best person so far.

You would be better served looking at how you can improve for the next one.