To ban talk of children in the workplace?

[Kanfuzed123]

Chatted to my friend today over coffee. She’s snr leadership at quite a big company, very successful and generally v lovely. She is struggling ttc, and the ‘wrong side of 35’ (quote is from a dr she has seen not me)

She mentioned She wanted to escalate a work issue around a few specific individuals, talking about their children. She wanted to escalate this higher and ban talk of children at work and get thr repeat offenders basically ‘told off’… not a disciplinary but getting someone more snr than her (and she’s pretty snr) to talk to them as they’ve been ‘upsetting people’ over ‘repeated insensitive comments’.

To be clear this isn’t the case of people saying ‘why don’t you have kids?’ ‘When are you having them’ because I do think there could be a conversation there. It seemed more of office chit chat like hi Bob what did you do this weekend?’ ‘Well Dave I took my kids to the aquarium’ sort of thing or you know introductory calls/ getting to know each other, ‘hi I’m Dave, 45, background in computer programming, originally from New Zealand, 2 kids both are football mad and a cocker spaniel called fluffy’ sort of thing

I’ve been through infertility myself and it’s hell, but I think to raise this issue higher and actively ban your direct reports talking of their family is not the sort of precedent to set. I actually think suggesting it to people higher up will not make her look good at all and could be a HR issue. Where does the line get drawn, can people talk about or mention their parents? Someone has probably lost a parent somewhere in the wider team etc.

I could tell she was quite worked up about it today over our coffee so I didn’t say anything about it from a ‘don’t do that’ point of view but we’re going shopping tomorrow and I do feel like I should maybe say something as when she gets sometbing in her head she does plough ahead with it and I think it doesn’t make her look too good.

am I wrong?

This is ridiculous. So Bob asks me what I did at the weekend and I took my children to the park, I say what? "I went to the park Bob, it was great and i played on the swings and got an ice cream" or "Nothing Bob, I didn't do anything" or just lie? What about if a child is off sick and you have to look after them? Or leave early for a school performance or some such. There's a multitude of practical and logistical, non boasting, reasons to talk about your children at work. I don't waffle on about my children but I'd really resent working somewhere that restricted me discussing my life in normal context.

The idea you should be able to ask colleagues not to discuss any topic except where it meets a threshold of offensiveness or controversy is ridiculous.
I have two colleagues who discuss the local rugby club's performance. Boring boring boring. Allowed allowed allowed.
People are getting increasingly self-obsessed. I think part of normal, healthy life is listening to other people waffle on a bit.

ha well, good luck to her. I have DC but they're 16 and 19 so they're the people in my life rather than my cute kids. I don't show photos around, ykwim

But i'm single, how about I banned ALL TALK of partners?

I don't really mind when people tell me how Dave/Mike/Steve likes his burger done on the barbecue, I just nod and smile. If they weren't talking about Dave/Mike/Steve they'd be saying something else. What's the difference. It's all how it's told. Whatever it is, it's always how they tell 'em.

No it's not an outright ban, it was just guidance. We are still working 100 percent remotely so we have slightly stilted social catch-ups and the manager who leads them just told us all we'd have to stop talking about children when the new person starts. It's not very well adhered to tbh but I've taken it to heart a bit. I'd hate to think I was making people upset or being boring.

I did used to get upset when people talked about their extensions, or their mortgages. Not only did they OWN the house they lived in but they could afford to improve it.

So. Ban the word mortgage as it can be upsetting to renters and ban the word extension as I can't afford to extend.

This is weird - if I haven’t seen someone for a while at work it’s
‘hey, how’re you, how’s the kids’ etc.. it’s a fantastic conversation starter

That’s my gut feeling too, that it’s really problematic that she thinks it’s ok to think she can police what’s being said in that awkward 5 minute waiting for everyone to join a meeting silence killer small talk conversation.

also given her disdain for a small group Im wondering if it’s going to inadvertently lead to targeting them in some capacity as they are the core offenders apparently.

If you think she might start targeting people she manages then I'm not sure how ethical it is to advise her to stop short of the point where it would alert more senior people... You're right that if she tries to ban talk of children it'll make her look unstable and raise doubts about whether she should be a people manager but it sounds like they would be legitimate doubts!

God this is quite triggering for me because this is exactly what my bully boss said to me! I had a quick call with his PA (who sometimes would act as my assistant) she said how was your weekend? I said oh it was great lots of kids activities, I said ‘it’s nice to be in the office but I miss them’.

Boss pulled me up later in the week said ‘don’t talk about your kids’ literally out of nowhere and I’m wracking my brains thinking when/who did I mention the kids to?! Evil bully man.

Surely the only possible solution would be to ban all 'personal discussion' ... ie; the meeting starts at 10am and you launch straight into point one of the agenda with no niceties and social chit chat at all .. but this would be totally unrealistic. Maybe she needs to work somewhere where there is no human interaction? .

She sounds utterly ridiculous... lots of 'work banter' is utterly tedious, boring and potentially triggering... but as adults we have to accept that and manage our emotions ourselves.

I get your colleague, 30 years ago this was me except I was on the “right” side of 35. It was hell. The workplace is really difficult when you are in this situation. I never did have a child. There is no practical way of enforcing what she is proposing though.

One of my colleagues lost a DC to suicide, my DS is now the same age as her's was when he died, I am careful not to talk too much about my DS, particularly any 'proud mum' comments but if anything, my colleague goes out of her way to ask about my DS and seems genuinely interested in him and what he is doing.

Exactly.
She'd be laughed out of the place.

@MolkosTeenageAngst @Beit @timeisnotaline I know you're right and I should say something but to be honest I'm too much of a wimp. Parents seem stable at the moment so I just say they're okay and move on. But ultimately the social calls are something to be endured rather than enjoyed (even though I really like my colleagues and miss chatting to them).

I do keep a secret tally of how often cats' bowel movements are discussed and reflect wryly on how socially unacceptable it would be to ramble on about potty training to that extent (I am very much in favour of an outright ban on that topic. Hated it even when mine were that age 🙂)

She sounds awful. I'd be inclined to let her play out this batshit notion with senior management and get the flak she deserves - her bitterness is making her a bully and that needs sorting. The messenger gets shot though, so if she has redeeming qualities and you want to keep the friendship, tread gently. If she was a true friend, I don't think I'd be able to help telling the truth and hoping she saw sense, before tanking her career.

To those posters who would like all talk of kids banned, it's a bit weird to be on a parenting website but also, it's better to live in a world where most people truly believe their kids are the most perfect people ever, than the alternative. Parents are supposed to find their kids interesting and funny and totally gorgeous. And parents don't have a monopoly on boring conversations - other peoples holidays and hobbies and house renovations are not not fascinating either!

We did have a discussion at work once about people talking about very expensive things that most other people working at the same level couldn't afford.

I don't think this is something that will get the desired result. A conversation perhaps with those who talk about their children incessantly, if that is the case, but not instigated by HR or a senior manager, but from your friend.

Self-obsessed and self-centred are words that spring to mind. No way should she act on her impulse to shut everyone else up, especially if she goes on about her “hubby” and home improvements - showing off she isn’t the victim of domestic abuse, terminally single, or unable to afford her rent, from the point of view of the sort of person who bans other people’s topics of conversation. She either already has, or will shortly have, a reputation as someone awful to have to work with, if she forces people to chit chat about their home lives and then tells them child-related topics are banned.

She sounds awful. I'd be inclined to let her play out this batshit notion with senior management and get the flak she deserves - her bitterness is making her a bully and that needs sorting.

She’s not awful, her heart is breaking.

OP,

You sound like a nice friend.

I would say to her that you are NOT going to tell her what to do.

However, she will have to accept the risk, that by taking this action that her superiors will think she is absolutely batshit, that she is having a breakdown and that they will now be suspicious of her professional judgement.

That they will be concerned that by her actions she will cause HR issues.

Is she planning on telling people what they can discuss during breaks and lunch, walking too and from the office?

This could really blow up and it will be HER and her alone that will be damaged.

If it is people asking about fertility issues etc. she should shut that down, but other than that, she needs to wind her neck in.

This!

And what would happen if she did get pregnant ...would she then stick to her own ban? .

I totally get why the OP’s friend wants to this. At my last workplace a colleague was ttc and going through rounds of IVF failures. At the same time several women had toddlers so team meals and meetings were dominated by chat about what cute or challenging things the DC were doing. You could feel the pain emanating from my colleague. But it’s crazy to consider policing those conversations. A good friend, like OP seems to be, would try to firmly steer her friend away from doing something harmful to her career.

She’s not awful, her heart is breaking

Oh that’s ok then. Let’s all go back to a time when women didn’t mention their kids in the office for fear of discrimination. And men pretended they weren’t involved in their children’s lives at all.

OP this will be a career limiting event for your friend.

She needs counselling to help her deal with normal life, then, not to ban all topics of conversation that upset her. She will always, for the rest of her life, be surrounded by parents and children, unless she becomes a recluse.

So many extremely harsh posts.

Clearly the woman is not coping. A good boss will help her work that out and give her some space to get into a better space.

But using phrases like batshit mental and awful and laughing emojis is very unkind.

Be glad you are not hurting so bad that you have lost perspective. She’s in a tough place.