To ban talk of children in the workplace?

[Kanfuzed123]

Chatted to my friend today over coffee. She’s snr leadership at quite a big company, very successful and generally v lovely. She is struggling ttc, and the ‘wrong side of 35’ (quote is from a dr she has seen not me)

She mentioned She wanted to escalate a work issue around a few specific individuals, talking about their children. She wanted to escalate this higher and ban talk of children at work and get thr repeat offenders basically ‘told off’… not a disciplinary but getting someone more snr than her (and she’s pretty snr) to talk to them as they’ve been ‘upsetting people’ over ‘repeated insensitive comments’.

To be clear this isn’t the case of people saying ‘why don’t you have kids?’ ‘When are you having them’ because I do think there could be a conversation there. It seemed more of office chit chat like hi Bob what did you do this weekend?’ ‘Well Dave I took my kids to the aquarium’ sort of thing or you know introductory calls/ getting to know each other, ‘hi I’m Dave, 45, background in computer programming, originally from New Zealand, 2 kids both are football mad and a cocker spaniel called fluffy’ sort of thing

I’ve been through infertility myself and it’s hell, but I think to raise this issue higher and actively ban your direct reports talking of their family is not the sort of precedent to set. I actually think suggesting it to people higher up will not make her look good at all and could be a HR issue. Where does the line get drawn, can people talk about or mention their parents? Someone has probably lost a parent somewhere in the wider team etc.

I could tell she was quite worked up about it today over our coffee so I didn’t say anything about it from a ‘don’t do that’ point of view but we’re going shopping tomorrow and I do feel like I should maybe say something as when she gets sometbing in her head she does plough ahead with it and I think it doesn’t make her look too good.

am I wrong?

Ach well she’s determined the office revolves around her so there you go.
It won’t go well. Silly woman.

I suppose it depends what that specific group have been saying, maybe there has been some very inappropriate talk - wouldn’t be the first time it’s happened in a workplace.

I really dislike the flippant use of the word “unhinged” to describe someone, inevitably a woman, who is in distress. I hope her manager is mature enough to help her through this.

I just hope her manager realises this is coming from a place of deep distress and hurt and is gentle with her.

I mentioned some counselling but she didn’t take this well, she’d be fine if this specific group of people stopped mentioning their kids and rubbing it in her face. I think she’s hurting (I’m not sure if something has triggered this v recently or if it’s a resentment that’s been building over time) and she’s zoned in on these specific individuals (not all women btw) she said she’s having to start introductory calls saying before everyone says ‘hi my names is so and so and I’m from london , 2 kids and a cat etc’ ‘hi my name is bla bla and no kids’ just so people ‘know’. Or what did you do on the weekend questions she’s ‘having to’ ‘well I didn’t go to the park this weekend because I don’t have kids’.

No, she is not having to do that she is choosing to do it to draw attention to herself. You don't need to have kids to go to a park ffs. Honestly, I know your friend is probably in a bad place but this is ridiculous and does sound like she is harbouring resentment which is now ramping up into a vendetta against those specific people who happen to have children.

No doubt your friend would be perfectly happy not to ban talk about children if/when she has her own?

What she is doing or planning to do is totally unprofessional it's very narcissistic and selfish. Her colleagues are not there to pander to her feelings.

Nobody is rubbing it in her face either and to think they are is beyond ridiculous.

Your friend is bonkers. She needs to be told to get a grip and that the whole world doesn’t revolve around her.

The world doesn’t revolve around women who can’t have kids. She needs to grow up and stop being a brat.

When you’re in her position it feels like the world revolves around people who do have kids.

She’s being a complete arsehole and the employees she is victimising will no doubt make complaints against her if she gives them appraisals they don’t like. I wouldn’t trust her as far as I could throw her as a manager of people at the moment.

What she is doing or planning to do is totally unprofessional it's very narcissistic and selfish. Her colleagues are not there to pander to her feelings.

Agreed. She will make herself look very silly and childish. She has two choices:

1. She can be very open about her fertility struggles and what she finds difficult - and then hope for some sensitivity/consideration from others. Even this, however, wouldn’t preclude someone from saying they went to the park at the weekend.
2. She keeps her private life private and learns to accept that other people have lives which they may wish, perfectly reasonably, to discuss in causal conversation

…..and that’s basically it! She really will make herself look quite ridiculous if she carries on with the approach she is suggesting.

That's life, it's tough, we don't all get what we want but that is not the fault of the people who do have what we want. It's something people have to come to terms with and not expect the rest of the world to tiptoe round them.

Peppa pig world - Good God the vegans will so die if you mention this!

it got slightly heated as she couldn’t see where I was coming from, she thought this is upsetting her and her feelings matter and she should be happy going into work. obviously in principle this is sound logic but in this context it’s messy. I mentioned some counselling but she didn’t take this well, she’d be fine if this specific group of people stopped mentioning their kids and rubbing it in her face. I think she’s hurting (I’m not sure if something has triggered this v recently or if it’s a resentment that’s been building over time) and she’s zoned in on these specific individuals (not all women btw) she said she’s having to start introductory calls saying before everyone says ‘hi my names is so and so and I’m from london , 2 kids and a cat etc’ ‘hi my name is bla bla and no kids’ just so people ‘know’. Or what did you do on the weekend questions she’s ‘having to’ ‘well I didn’t go to the park this weekend because I don’t have kids’.

we had to conclude the conversation with my saying, I don’t think professionally it comes across well, it might be better to talk it trough with maybe a councillor , take a week off maybe and reflect but she’s adamant this is the way forward and needs to be done ASAP to ‘stop the behaviour’. So I just had to leave it, with well I’m not going to tell you what to do; I’ve told you my thoughts and concerns but you’ll do what you think is best.

She sounds abusive to me.

Think I'd be backing away none-too-slowly from this friendship.

This entire situation is really odd. If people are literally just mentioning having gone to park with kids at the weekend, then of course she’s being unreasonable. If she works in a workplace like mine and the chat about pregnancy and kids is more or less constant (one of my colleagues has a work pregnancy blog that she circulates to us directly each sodding week despite knowing I can’t have kids), then it probably has become a bit intolerable and raising it may well be a good idea, but done sensitively.

That said, this part of one of your comments made me wonder whether you’re seeing this through your own lens:

i think I’m going to start by talking about how in my first pregnancy my manager told me my pregnancy (which I hadn’t announced) was making people uncomfortable and I should have been more considerate and then proceeded to make my life hell and I had awful complications that nearly meant still birth… hopefully as she knows my kids that situation will seem objectively horrid and she’ll get it.

This is a horrific experience and I’m very sorry to hear of it. It isn’t comparable to suggesting that pregnancy/kids chat be reduced if it’s excessive, and suggesting to her that she might be contributing to an environment so toxic that women could suffer pregnancy complications is incredibly extreme.

I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle - the chat is probably a bit more than just one off remarks every day, and she’s probably going through some shit herself. I don’t know why you’re posting about her on MN, though.

She sounds a little unhinged.

It’s obviously worth being sensitive to certain situations- when I was pregnant my client manager had just had a loss at 12 weeks, I was very aware and careful when dealing with her.

But a complete ban on talking about children ever? No, that’s bonkers.

it was more the situation to intervene or not as technically not really going to impact me and my advice wasn’t directly sought but I do think it’s an awful professional decision and from what she’s said actually a bit mean. Isn’t that the essence on mN, posting anon for other peoples perspective on a certain situation?

im glad I said something, whilst at the time she’s adamant to say something, maybe she’ll reflect on what I said and just let it slide and see someone for some coping strategies

You've said your piece now, not much more you can do.

she said she’s having to start introductory calls saying before everyone says ‘hi my names is so and so and I’m from london , 2 kids and a cat etc’ ‘hi my name is bla bla and no kids’ just so people ‘know’. Or what did you do on the weekend questions she’s ‘having to’ ‘well I didn’t go to the park this weekend because I don’t have kids’.

Realistically then her judgement has already gone and other people have already noticed and it might not be the worst thing if she pushes things to the point that her manager has to deal with it, which is what will happen if she goes ahead with her plan to stop anyone mentioning their children. Like @CounsellorTroi I just really hope that her manager realised that this is coming from a place of pain and needs sympathy and sensitivity (while also making it clear that she cannot do this).

The bit I don’t understand is if it’s a particular group of people, why so many occasions where people are introducing themselves?

New starters, work reshuffle and cross department projects from what I understand

This! Why is so much time being wasted on chatting about people's weekends?

Perhaps if she kept matters more professional, she and everyone else would be much happier!

I’m glad you said something.

People do talk to each other on a personal level in healthy work environments.

If someone went to the park with their kids it’s so rude to say “well I don’t have kids so I didn’t go to a park”….that’s soooo rude and unprofessional. If she’s doing this regularly then it will have been noticed and her new request will make it easier for her manager to address.

There's so many subjects that could inadvertently upset people, talk of parents, pets, partners, house renovations, holidays, cars, trips. Where does it end?

So I have been told at work I have to be more mindful and not talk about being open when I’m going to have a baby? Is this something someone can actually say?
i work in a salon and ladies love to talk so often I get asked if I have children.. I always say not yet.
or if they see my engagement ring they will ask when is the wedding? Which I replied with I’m not sure we would like to have a baby first.
there is someone at work that has had a few miscarriage and she is the one that keeps telling me that I cannot be speaking about this to clients. I’m very professional in my job only bring up the baby conversation when I know when to and how to quickly end it if I know it’s not the right person to speak about it.
also very aware of how tough it can be not being blessed with a little one so I know how to word things too. I know I’m very mindful about this topic and very professional in my job. It’s just now I’m questioning myself because I keep being told the same thing by this work colleague.

can baby conversation be banned at a work place?

@A199 I’d suggest a rule where if they ask you it’s fine, but maybe stop asking them. You can’t always know, and surely it’s easier to stick to topics where you don’t have to think so hard about whether or not you’re being sensitive enough about whether or not your client has had “the blessing”? (And by the way, that wording in itself made me question whether you’re truly talking about this in a sensitive way - made me wince).

I think your situation is different as your work environment involves paying customers, and if you’re being told to be more careful in what you say then there may be something in that. The OP’s and many of us on the thread are talking about offices, and that’s a different situation. My boss doesn’t lose money because I hate my coworkers droning on about their kids.