To ban talk of children in the workplace?

[Kanfuzed123]

Chatted to my friend today over coffee. She’s snr leadership at quite a big company, very successful and generally v lovely. She is struggling ttc, and the ‘wrong side of 35’ (quote is from a dr she has seen not me)

She mentioned She wanted to escalate a work issue around a few specific individuals, talking about their children. She wanted to escalate this higher and ban talk of children at work and get thr repeat offenders basically ‘told off’… not a disciplinary but getting someone more snr than her (and she’s pretty snr) to talk to them as they’ve been ‘upsetting people’ over ‘repeated insensitive comments’.

To be clear this isn’t the case of people saying ‘why don’t you have kids?’ ‘When are you having them’ because I do think there could be a conversation there. It seemed more of office chit chat like hi Bob what did you do this weekend?’ ‘Well Dave I took my kids to the aquarium’ sort of thing or you know introductory calls/ getting to know each other, ‘hi I’m Dave, 45, background in computer programming, originally from New Zealand, 2 kids both are football mad and a cocker spaniel called fluffy’ sort of thing

I’ve been through infertility myself and it’s hell, but I think to raise this issue higher and actively ban your direct reports talking of their family is not the sort of precedent to set. I actually think suggesting it to people higher up will not make her look good at all and could be a HR issue. Where does the line get drawn, can people talk about or mention their parents? Someone has probably lost a parent somewhere in the wider team etc.

I could tell she was quite worked up about it today over our coffee so I didn’t say anything about it from a ‘don’t do that’ point of view but we’re going shopping tomorrow and I do feel like I should maybe say something as when she gets sometbing in her head she does plough ahead with it and I think it doesn’t make her look too good.

am I wrong?

I think your friend is obviously unreasonable to try to make this happen, although I really sympathise with her pain. And I think it would backfire for her if she actually pushed ahead with this, as it makes her look as if she's unable to cope and do her job professionally.

I do think we should try (without rules) to be sensitive in workplace chat. The extent to which I'll chat about my children varies depending on exactly who is present. Similarly I've been in a few situations, especially in small meetings, where I think others have completely failed to think about who is present and what sort of small talk is appropriate (manager gratuitous renovation chat to his own team, all of whom were financially struggling). But I think we have to live with these accidental lapses, because the alternative of banning chitchat or having an approved list of topics is unpalatable.

I like workplace chat to be at least 80% work related, but I know that varies hugely. Both sides of this must be much harder in places where much more time and attention is focused on people's lives outside of work.

I was taking issue with you for saying she sounds awful, not defending banning talking about children. I’ve been where she is and it can rob you of your reason.

All this "getting triggered" stuff is getting way OTT. Whatever happened to taking some personal responsibility for your feelings and not expecting to police what everyone else can talk about?

Your colleague also shouldn't be allowed to mention her partner at work (some colleagues are single), her car (some don't have one), her holidays (some can't afford going away to nice places), etc.etc.etc. I do feel sorry for women and men who are unable to conceive and personally wouldn't blab about too much anyway, it's polite to be discrete but banning talk of kids is silly.

It sounds as though she hasn’t recognised she is being triggered, that she imagines others are being unreasonable. She has lost her way and it is a sign of terrible grief. I hope someone in her work is kind but firm with her and she gets through this. It’s so easy to point and laugh at people in pain but it doesn’t actually take much to be supportive.

So many unkind posts on here. The woman is clearly struggling. I once worked with a woman who related every single conversation back to her two year old and talked of nothing else. If this is the case at her work, and I don’t believe it unusual, then no wonder she’s finding it so hard. Rather than banning, which will get backs up, maybe there should be a conversation about being thoughtful to others.

I think as her friend you need to try and stop this, I'd hope my friends would do the same for me.

I think I'd go from a "Jane, what you said yesterday is so clearly insane I'm quite worried about you. Would you consider seeing someone?" point of view.

So ...I don't have a sibling....let's not mention your brother or sister
I'm adopted ....please dont talk about your parents

Sorry but no....she can't do this

Why don't you just say you don't like talking about your parents the next time she asks and ask her not to ask you again?

If she can do it with children then you have every right to to it with parents

That's a very good point because I imagine if she does manage to have a child it will be 'all' she talks about. I hope in that case people very bluntly tell her they don't want to hear it.

Exactly. In my case, my mum is dead, please don't talk about your mum. I mean, where does it end?!

If it's a specific group she's apparently targeting, then tbh your friend has turned into a classic bully. She's taken her pain and weaponised it, and if she can't have kids then no one can talk about theirs. Imagine believing you have that much control over people.

This also bugs me because if she is their manager and say she doesn't get her way with this...is she going to start punishing them in other ways?

And to a PP who said she's not awful she's in pain - you can be awful and in pain simultaneously. You don't get to take out your anger and pain on people in the workplace. Learn to control yourself or take a leave of absence.

Unless you're going to dripfeed that your work is a primary school and the 'others at the same level' were the rest of year one this is ridiculous. I have lots of sympathy for OP's friend - I think she's wrong and I'm not sure she should be managing at the moment, but I have sympathy - but adults who are jealous that some people have more expensive things than them need to grow up!

This just shows her head is all over the place and she hasn’t thought it through.

The lack of empathy and compassion on this thread is quite something.

And to a PP who said she's not awful she's in pain - you can be awful and in pain simultaneously. You don't get to take out your anger and pain on people in the workplace. Learn to control yourself or take a leave of absence.

👏👏👏

She's being ridiculous. If someone has an alcoholic parent, would they ban talk of alcohol in the workplace? If my Dad is no longer alive, can I ban talk of Dads? Completely absurd and self-centred, no matter the circumstances.

I struggled with infertility & multiple losses. I absolutely get the devastation & alienation. But this is a completely insane thing your friend is proposing. It would be a huge abuse of her power if she managed it; it would probably count as discrimination (how exactly would staff request parental leave if they’re not allowed to mention their kids?)

By seriously suggesting this, she will out herself at work as someone who is not in touch with reason or reality. This will impact her career and make her the subject of mean-spirited gossip.

Given how you describe her, I can’t imagine she’ll listen to anything you say. But worth trying to reason with her regardless. Good luck.

You know its not reasonable of her - i don't think thats what you were asking. I'm taking it you were asking how to get her to see that she shouldn't do this.

What does she like to chit chat about in work? Maybe a pet or a sport or hobby or other family lije partners or parents? So if she still is lucky enough to have parents for example - how would she feel if she was banned from mentioning them because others had parents who were no longer alive. I'd basically be trying to get her to see how it would feel if she was on the receiving end of this plan. But it would have to be talk about sonething or someone really significant in her life thst has a huge emotional connection.

I'd also be tempted to point out that the people above her in management probably on occasion talk about their children too if they have them and how will thst go down with them?

In the gentlest way I could I would say that you can't stop peoole talking about their lives together with others just because they have something in their lives you want. They have a need to share and bond with their colleagues and she as a manager surely wants the team to bond together? Her needs not to hear it doesn't trump their right to share.

I agree...I think you'd need to be very very close to someone before intervening would be a good idea.

She is not coping with her personal issues.
However she is crazy to enforce this and will come across as deranged.

She needs to understand that she doesn't have control over normal conversations amongst her staff.
She's being absurd, understandably she's having a tough time but that doesn't give her the right to eliminate someone else's joy.

Of course she is being unreasonable BUT having been through the nightmare of infertility (and out the other side), it is completely all consuming. You see and hear about babies EVERYWHERE and it's so easy to become obsessed and a bit crackers about the whole thing really.

There was one week during lockdown, when our fertility treatment had been delayed AGAIN, when no fewer than 6 of my friends told me they were expecting in the course of that week. Plus at work, there was a blog from someone returning from mat leave at work about balancing baby + work, and another blog about someone being pregnant during lockdown. At that point, i did have a quiet word with the head of comms and suggest that maybe some people didn't want all things baby related pushed down their throat on the front of the intranet and perhaps we could keep the blogs to be work related. 🙄 I also drank a lot of gin to console myself.

I would never have suggested banning general child chit chat though.

It was during this time that i first started actively posting on MN (different username) as i didnt fancy counselling but needed a bit of an outlet. It sounds like your colleague might want to consider finding a way to process this outside of work?

Being how I am, I would have risked a fallout and kindly but firmly put her straight. The reason for this is that I am uncomfortable with lying or being fake. I disagree with her stance and given it could potentially do her harm to see this complaint through, I’d have to give her the benefit of my honesty.

No love. I won’t patronise you by telling you how you must feel…but with kindness, you cannot expect to stop people referring to their children. Seek support in another way.

She cannot do that. We have someone who is expecting fertility issues in our team and I do try and be sensitive around the issue. But she always asks me ‘how are the kids’ so she’s not expecting anyone to avoid any baby talk.

I've been there. Struggling to conceive hurts. But your friend has lost all perspective. You can't ban life.