to pull DD out of residential trip?

[Irishshamrock]

Year 5 and off on 3 night PGL next week
Kids have been told for months they will find out what room they are in the Friday before they head off - yesterday!
Kids came out, some in tears as teacher has now decided to tell them on arriving at the hotel instead
DD up all night worrying as she’s a quiet soul, outwardly confident but actually very nervous and only has one very close friend.
Without being in a room with this friend she never would have agreed to go but at parents evening I was assured she would be unless any falling out etc - there hasn’t been!
How can I confidently send her when I don’t know for sure?
WWYD?

It would have been awful for me to be separated from my particular two friends.

I feel sorry for the friends in this kind of situation. They shouldn't be made to feel that another child's happiness and wellbeing is dependent on being with them.

What if, in a situation of this kind, friend feels that it's all getting a bit too much, and friend's parent feels they need a break and asks for their child not to be put with the child who has requested it?

Wow. They are some harsh responses here. There seems so little empathy towards a child who is very nervous and struggles. So much for all the focus on mental health and being kind. The school absolutely shouldn't have changed the terms and should have told them on the Friday or reassured them that they would be able to choose one friend to share a room with upon arrival and that the school would ensure that they would be fine/not to worry. I can imagine that it is a nightmare sorting out in advance and better to sort out once they are there, but a bit of reassurance to the more nervous kids, going away for the first time, could go a long way.

It isn't about a lack of empathy for a child who is struggling. It's about recognising that the child will continue to struggle throughout life if they are not given some very safe opportunities to be pushed very slightly out of their comfort zones.

Acknowledging the child's concerns and giving them strategies for dealing with any problems is obviously very important, and the child should certainly know that she will be able to come home if she really needs to, but she should be encouraged to at least give it a go - she might find that she has an amazing time. We don't build good mental health in our children by dismissing or belittling their feelings, but we also don't build good mental health by allowing them to avoid every single experience that might potentially cause them a little bit of anxiety or discomfort. Teachers are experienced at dealing with kids who are nervous on residential trips, and I'm sure that they will support the child appropriately if she needs it.

It isn't about a lack of empathy for a child who is struggling. It's about recognising that the child will continue to struggle throughout life if they are not given some very safe opportunities to be pushed very slightly out of their comfort zones.

I agree. The whole point of school trips is just that.
They are fun, yes, but that is not the reason the school organises them

FGS don’t be THAT parent, she’ll be fine. Don’t make her miss out on the fun, you’ll be surprised how much she’ll grow in the few days and you can’t baby her forever

They do do it though. Happened to DD on school trips, more than once. The second time two girls in her room absolutely hated one another (well known to actually fight each other and were separated at school) and should have been kept apart at all costs. Why on earth the school put them in the same room I have no idea. It was a disaster.

I think it’s a good idea not telling them until they get there, saves the teacher the hassle of having parents moaning about who their child is sharing with, teachers have enough to do and parents can be way more dramatic than the parents. I’m sure they have put children with their friendship groups where possible, sadly you can’t please everyone which is why they aren’t telling them until they get there. By pulling your daughter out of the trip you are teaching her that if she feels a bit anxious it’s ok to run away from your fears. Just reassure her that all will be fine and send her.

Is being away from home for 4 days aged 9 or 10 without contact with your family and potentially having to
share with people you don’t like being ‘pushed very slightly out of your comfort zone’?

It is very odd that the teachers decided to completely change tactics on room sharing disclosure so close to the event.

If any of the DCs have undiagnosed autism that last minute change of approach is going to hit them really hard. Even if not the room sharing has always been an important element of the trip to the DCs, no amount of underplaying it makes it less so.

Not being British, I can't understand what is it so important about not pulling her out. I definitely would for the reasons you mention. I think the teacher is unfair. In the real life, this is one of the ridiculous things that she wouldn't do (go on a trip to spend 4 days with people she doesn't like). Why would she do it now when she is a just a quiet kids. Life is too short and you seem to have a good relationship with her, based on trust. I would preserve that relationship and her sense that life could be beautiful even if you don't enjoy the company of loud and outward people. Let her be, it won't affect her universities prospects.

Also, I have a daughter that sounds similar to yours but older. I always discussed this thighs with her and trusted her opinions. She is doing very well now 🤷🏻‍♀️

I can really sympathise. DD2 is in year 6, we have SATS next week then PGL two weeks later. DD is confident, friendly with most of the girls, but has a particular issue with 2. She’d prefer to be with a couple of close friends, but even she is stressing about who she’ll be put with. They won’t find out until they are en route, and no phones, so no way to console/commiserate.

I’m lucky though, as one of her friends is waking every night, crying, which is really hard. Her mum has spoken with their teacher, who asked her who she would be happy with, and lucky for us, DD is one of 2 girls she named, so I’m hoping that she will be with her very nervous friend.

Umm, yes?

The reaction she should be getting from you is of breezy confidence. You are feeding her worry about this with your language and emotions. In all likelihood she will be with her friend. If the romance take more than two the teachers have to do lots of juggling to keep everyone happy. Your dd will in all likelihood have a brilliant time and this is what you should be saying. The kids are in and out of each others rooms usually anyway and are in mixed groups during the day. Pulling her out of the trip is silly and will backfire when everyone else goes and has a fab time. Try to help your dd learn some resilience by reassuring her it will be fine and talking about something else.

You are exhausting and you’re probably projecting onto your daughter. There will be a reason not to tell them, probably as others have said the drama beforehand. Trust the teachers, they do not want to deal with a distressed 10 year old unnecessarily anymore than you want her to be distressed. The PGL residentials are largely built around resilience so will be good for all.

Or stop threatening school and just don’t send her. It would be easier for all.

Reassure your DD that she will cope, wherever she sleeps. This is a lesson in resilience, IMO.

If you've been assured they would be together unless a falling out then they will be together. So tell your DD (if you haven't already) that as the teacher said that, you are confident that they will be together so she doesn't have to worry. (If it helps also say that in the 0.0001% chance that they aren't, you will come and get her and bring her home.) I completely understand, I have a very anxious DS and he would be the same. There have been times that we've had to tell school he would not be doing X because otherwise he would refuse to come to school. He did have a disastrous school trip in Y7 because, although put with his best friend, they were put with some loud disruptive boys. However, that's because it was secondary and they have been fairly hopeless at dealing with his issues. I was absolutely confident in primary school that he would be put with his friends (and if necessary other quiet boys) and he was and I'm glad I sent him as it was good for his confidence (in a small way, he didn't come home a changed boy!)

And just to say that at DC's primary they didn't tell them until the morning of the trip either and, whilst we'd have rather known before, it made complete sense as otherwise they would definitely have had some parents hassling them, even though we know the teachers spent hours trying to allocate in the best way possible taking into account all the needs and preferences. If you trust her teachers then just do that, trust them to do their job (and indeed to go way beyond their job - on school trips they are basically working 24 hours but only paid for a normal school day) and reassure your DD.

Really sick of reading this shit now. For children with this level of anxiety, where ASD is a possibility, making them face things in this way isn’t the answer. If you have any experience of a child like this or of therapy, you wouldn’t talk harmful, uninformed shit like this, unless you are uncaring.

I have an autistic child @WhatWouldHarveyDo and I would absolutely encourage them to go in this scenario. Autistic children do need to be supported to go outside of their comfort zone.

As parents that is our job.

I agree with this @WhatWouldHarveyDo .

I just heard about the level of upset that a very minor change of arrangements in a school trip made to a friends DC with high functioning autism.

If something like this had happened age 9 before she left, I doubt she would have been able to go.

I'd also reiterate it's not so much that they won't know who they will be sharing with, it's the fact that all along she has been told that she will share with her friend, now a) the teachers have changed the rules of engagement with short notice and b) she does not know who she will be sharing with.

Psychologists sometimes use exposure therapy to help some patients, face their fears.

With respect, you have your child with autism. You don’t have OPs child. And the child that I have in mind whilst discussing this, some on the posters and attitudes on this thread, quite frankly destroyed her.

No I don't have the OP's child. And neither do you.

A clinical psychologist:

I sometimes work with people who started to feel anxious in crowded places. In order to avoid these feelings they stay at home, and the result of this is that over time they become more, not less, frightened of going out. When I see people after years of staying indoors they will sometimes have panic attacks just walking down their front path. All their strenuous efforts to avoid distress have resulted in a problem which is far more serious than it was at the start. Often their whole family will be involved in organising life so they never have to go out. The person is behaving as if the outside world is the problem, rather than addressing the way they feel about the outside world, and everyone else is supporting them to live as if they are correct.

Maybe the OP's kid will absolutely hate the trip. Maybe she won't. She won't know unless she goes.

I believe it is our job as parents to try and reduce our children's anxiety, not to encourage it.

Indeed they do, in certain circumstances. They go slowly though. They don’t send the person on a 3 day trip like this as it would do more harm than good. And if it’s ASD, exposure therapy may not be suitable. The medical experts involved in the persons care would be best placed to decide.

OP, I would strongly suggest you get professional help for your daughters anxiety if that’s not already in place. Pursue an ASD diagnosis if they think that is likely. If you don’t, I guarantee your daughter will deal with the shitty attitudes on this thread throughout secondary school. And it gets harder without medical notes detailing anxiety and the support needed, or a formal diagnose as the child gets older. As they go through secondary school there is obviously there is an expectation that kids should be more capable, cops with more things, be more resilient, more independent etc. That’s all true for a child not suffering severe anxiety or having autism. That’s not to say a child with those things can’t progress well, but adjustments make things easier and less stressful for everyone.