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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think male violence will never end?

672 replies

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 15:26

I was reading the news about 14 year old boy raping and killing a 10 year old girl and I just became so tired.
So tired of endless violence boys and men do to girls and women.
And how they don’t care, they seem to think it’s funny or get angry at any woman who try and speak about it.

OP posts:
stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:29

ldontWanna · 04/05/2022 22:25

Because I don't believe things like abuse, murder or assault are caused by what you have in your pants. As we have repeatedly pointed out to you, the stats are slewed by a mismatch in physicality. (as you all keep pointing out to me when you tell me women 'can't rape).

Then why don't men and women murder children at the same(or similar) rates?

Nice try, but they roughly do.

The murder/suicide rate is slightly higher or males who are divorced - may that be due to a skewed justice system?

If you can find me stats that say men are far more likely I'd love to see them.

Unless of course you're referring to notorious child killers, all of which were enabled by a woman.

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:29

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:23

yes, it would be brilliantly wonderful for me as a woman with female friends and relatives if men murdered as much as they like.

Having my point made on MN is far more important to me than women's lives.

and im the useless poster.

Well you don’t offer anything else but denying that men are much more violent.

You don’t want that to be talked about.
You want us to work together, I wanted to know what men do to help, you gave no answers, asked what I’d want them to do (they could CHOOSE to be less violent and stop denying that we all have a problem with male violence).

So yeah, what good are you.
All you want to do it seems, is to protect men’s feelings.
Hiw is that important now?

OP posts:
stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:30

Supersee · 04/05/2022 22:28

Well I'm still waiting for a succinct answer. The majority of abuse, murder or assault are cause by those with that thing in their pants.

All I've read are excuses plain and simple.

WHY WOULD I MAKE EXCUSES FOR PEOPLE WHO MURDER PEOPLE THE SAME SEX AS ME!!

Sorry for caps but come on.

You just cannot be that stupid.

Pumperthepumper · 04/05/2022 22:30

Me too. An astonishing coincidence.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:31

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:29

Well you don’t offer anything else but denying that men are much more violent.

You don’t want that to be talked about.
You want us to work together, I wanted to know what men do to help, you gave no answers, asked what I’d want them to do (they could CHOOSE to be less violent and stop denying that we all have a problem with male violence).

So yeah, what good are you.
All you want to do it seems, is to protect men’s feelings.
Hiw is that important now?

I don't want to work with you. People like you are part of the problem.

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:31

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:26

Can I ask why you think I as a woman want to deny that men murder?

That’s what I’ve been wondering.
And asked many times.
No answers.

OP posts:
Supersee · 04/05/2022 22:32

You really need to calm down and fuck off with the personal insults. Have that wine you mentioned earlier.

Nothing that you've said has been intelligent or reasoned. All you've given are excuses for male abuse.

I'm out.

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:32

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:31

I don't want to work with you. People like you are part of the problem.

Yeah, okey. Sure.

I don’t know how you got so fucked in the head.

I guess you are desperate cause you got nothing.
Eyes shut.

OP posts:
stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:33

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:31

That’s what I’ve been wondering.
And asked many times.
No answers.

It must be because I am such an apologist I quite fancy upping my chances of being murdered.

Ridiculous.

I am not denying that they murder.

But I dont think its black and white.

If it was, we'd have cracked it years ago. Or are we just awaiting your magical change of the world with your army from MN?

Honestly, it's laughable. What sort of agenda could I possibly have here when by your reckoning its one that could get me or somene I love killed?

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:33

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:32

Yeah, okey. Sure.

I don’t know how you got so fucked in the head.

I guess you are desperate cause you got nothing.
Eyes shut.

Reported.

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:34

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:31

I don't want to work with you. People like you are part of the problem.

Also, this doesn’t make any sense.

I’m the problem cause I want male violence to stop!
Now who could think that that is a problem, I wonder…..

OP posts:
YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:35

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:33

Reported.

🙄

OP posts:
Discovereads · 04/05/2022 22:36

Pumperthepumper · 04/05/2022 22:25

@stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou you’re not answering though. Why do men kill so much more? Is it a coincidence?

One factor may be because violence begets violence. Many scientists have been studying violence by using epidemiology and getting interesting results. So the research done has found that as males are most likely to be victims of violence, those victims are at high risk of becoming violent. It’s cycle that goes from generation to generation, similar to the cycle of domestic violence and abuse seen in families.

Victims don’t become violent perpetrators just due to psychological damage but also there is a link between physical injury- ie head injuries can cause the victim to become violent as well. So one victim of violence goes on to victimise numerous other people with violence and then many of them go on to victimise other. So violence spreads organically. Similar to disease, there are individuals who are immune…they can have been abused, attacked, subjected to extreme violence and yet never turn violent themselves.

They’ve done studies on abused women who were victims of violence to and found them to be a higher risk of being violent towards their children.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:37

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:34

Also, this doesn’t make any sense.

I’m the problem cause I want male violence to stop!
Now who could think that that is a problem, I wonder…..

You're the problem because you have a vendetta against men and can't listen to anyone else's views or opinions, which further perpetuates the issue. You can't see how deluded you are that you think anyone with a different opinion must like and apologise for male violence, despite the fact it poses the same bloody risk to me.

You haven't had a lot to say about the article you used which incidentally has the nuances of a child so actually does not fit into the overall argument at all. Wonder why.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:38

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:35

🙄

Eyeroll all you like. Fucked in the head?

And I'm the enabler of violent speech?

TruthHertz · 04/05/2022 22:39

Supersee · 04/05/2022 22:15

When women commit almost as much DV, but cause far fewer deaths, then there has to be a reason.

Can you back that up?

Yup, reams of data available (shamelessly copied from anothefr recent thread but it's relevant).

The earliest empirical evidence of gender symmetry was presented in the 1975 U.S. National Family Violence Survey carried out by Murray A. Straus and Richard J. Gelles on a nationally representative sample of 2,146 "intact families". The survey found 11.6% of women and 12% of men had experienced some kind of IPV in the last twelve months, also 4.6% of men and 3.8% of women had experienced "severe" IPV.

Since 1975, numerous other empirical studies have found evidence of gender symmetry in IPV. For example, in the United States, the National Comorbidity Study of 1990-1992 found 18.4% of men and 17.4% of women had experienced minor IPV, and 5.5% of men and 6.5% of women had experienced severe IPV.

In England and Wales, the 1995 "Home Office Research Study 191" found that in the twelve months prior to the survey, 4.2% of both men and woman between the ages of 16 and 59 had been assaulted by an intimate partner.

The Canadian General Social Survey of 2000 found that from 1994 to 1999, 4% of men and 4% of women had experienced IPV in a relationship in which they were still involved, 22% of men and 28% of women had experienced IPV in a relationship which had now ended, and 7% of men and 8% of women had experienced IPV across all relationships, past and present.[33]

The 2005 Canadian General Social Survey, looking at the years 1999–2004 found similar data; 4% of men and 3% of women had experienced IPV in a relationship in which they were still involved, 16% of men and 21% of women had experienced IPV in a relationship which had now ended, and 6% of men and 7% of women had experienced IPV across all relationships, past and present.[34]

The 1975 National Family Violence Survey found that 27.7% of IPV cases were perpetrated by men alone, 22.7% by women alone and 49.5% were bidirectional. In order to counteract claims that the reporting data was skewed, female-only surveys were conducted, asking females to self-report, resulting in almost identical data.[51]

The 1985 National Family Violence Survey found 25.9% of IPV cases perpetrated by men alone, 25.5% by women alone, and 48.6% were bidirectional.

A study conducted in 2007 by Daniel J. Whitaker, Tadesse Haileyesus, Monica Swahn, and Linda S. Saltzman, of 11,370 heterosexual U.S. adults aged 18 to 28 found that 24% of all relationships had some violence. Of those relationships, 49.7% of them had reciprocal violence. In relationships without reciprocal violence, women committed 70% of all violence. However, men were more likely to inflict injury than women.[53]

The 2001 National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health found that 49.7% of IPV cases were reciprocal and 50.3% were non-reciprocal. When data provided by men only was analyzed, 46.9% of cases were reported as reciprocal and 53.1% as non-reciprocal. When data provided by women only was analyzed, 51.3% of cases were reported as reciprocal and 49.7% as non-reciprocal. The overall data showed 70.7% of non-reciprocal IPV cases were perpetrated by women only (74.9% when reported by men; 67.7% when reported by women) and 29.3% were perpetrated by men only (25.1% when reported by men; 32.3% when reported by women).[55]

The 2006 thirty-two nation International Dating Violence Study "revealed an overwhelming body of evidence that bidirectional violence is the predominant pattern of perpetration; and this ... indicates that the etiology of IPV is mostly parallel for men and women". The survey found for "any physical violence", a rate of 31.2%, of which 68.6% was bidirectional, 9.9% was perpetrated by men only, and 21.4% by women only. For severe assault, a rate of 10.8% was found, of which 54.8% was bidirectional, 15.7% perpetrated by men only, and 29.4% by women only.[56]

In 2000, John Archer conducted a meta-analysis of eighty-two IPV studies. He found that "women were slightly more likely than men to use one or more acts of physical aggression and to use such acts more frequently. Men were more likely to inflict an injury, and overall, 62% of those injured by a partner were women."[57] By contrast, the U.S. Department of Justice finds that women make up 84% of spouse abuse victims and 86% of victims of abuse by a boyfriend or girlfriend.[58]

Steinmetz found male perpetrated IPV at a rate of 47% and female perpetrated IPV at a rate of 43%. She further found that while 39% of husbands had thrown objects, 31% of wives had done likewise; 31% of husbands had pushed or shoved their partner, compared to 32% of wives; 20% of husbands had hit their wives, 20% of wives had hit their husbands; 10% of husbands had hit their wives with an object, 10% of wives had hit their husbands with an object.[75]

In another study, using a sample of fifty-two Canadian college students, Steinmetz found male perpetrated IPV at a rate of 23% and female perpetrated IPV at a rate of 21%. Further investigation found that 21% of both husbands and wives had thrown objects; 17% of husbands had pushed or shoved, compared to 13% of wives; 13% of husbands had hit their wives, 13% of wives had hit their husbands; 10% of husbands had hit their wives with an object, 12% of wives had hit their husbands with an object.[43]: 501–503.

In a third study, using a random sample of ninety-four people, Steinmetz found male perpetrated IPV at a rate of 32% and female perpetrated IPV at a rate of 28%. Further investigation found that 31% of husbands had thrown objects compared to 25% of wives; 22% of husbands had pushed or shoved, compared to 18% of wives; 17% of husbands had hit their wives, 12% of wives had hit their husbands; 12% of husbands had hit their wives with an object, 14% of wives had hit their husbands with an object.[76]

These findings led Steinmetz to conclude that IPV was roughly reciprocal between husbands and wives, with a similar level of intentionality between men and women; "women are as likely to select physical conflict to resolve marital conflict as are men ... women have the potential to commit acts of violence and under certain circumstances, they do carry out these acts".[43]

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men

Neverreturntoathread · 04/05/2022 22:41

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 15:43

Most violent crime, terrorism and rape is by men.
So the problem is men.
Not people, or women.

Sure, we can avoid the problem as long as we want, but then nothing will ever change, I assume this is what you want, then?

This.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:43

Must go to bed.

In direct answer to the OP, no, it will never end.

Not until people can see others' points of view. Which sadly, doesnt seem to be coming.

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:44

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:37

You're the problem because you have a vendetta against men and can't listen to anyone else's views or opinions, which further perpetuates the issue. You can't see how deluded you are that you think anyone with a different opinion must like and apologise for male violence, despite the fact it poses the same bloody risk to me.

You haven't had a lot to say about the article you used which incidentally has the nuances of a child so actually does not fit into the overall argument at all. Wonder why.

Vendetta?
Please, grow up.

The first thing that must be done is to be brave enought to see and admit what the problem is.
Without that nothing will ever change.

You silencing women helps no one.

OP posts:
stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:46

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:44

Vendetta?
Please, grow up.

The first thing that must be done is to be brave enought to see and admit what the problem is.
Without that nothing will ever change.

You silencing women helps no one.

I'm not silencing anyone.

Disagreeing with is a different thing. You're the one silencing me.

It is a vendetta. that's exactly what it is.

"Brave" is the PP earlier up the thread sharing her experiences. "Brave" are the victims of any crime, female, male or alien. "Brave" is the family of that kid mentioned in the OP - the family of both kids.

You, starting a thread on mumsnet and then making stupid comments to people who dont agree with you, are nt brave. Far, far from it. Deluded.

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:47

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:38

Eyeroll all you like. Fucked in the head?

And I'm the enabler of violent speech?

”Violent speech”!!

Yo’re all over the place.
F word and you’re scared.

But men commiting most violent crimes and almost all rapes is nothing to you.

So strange.

Have you thought about getting your priorities checked?

OP posts:
ldontWanna · 04/05/2022 22:48

Overall, fathers were significantly more likely to kill their children than mothers, and were more likely to use violent methods of killing, have previous convictions for violent offences, perpetrate multiple killings, and have a history of substance misuse or dependence.

Only 12 countries had available data on how many parental homicides were committed by step-parents, with 7.2% (IQR: 5.7–14.5) of parental homicides committed by step-parents. Out of them, nine studies reported a breakdown, with the median percentage of stepmothers committing homicides among parental homicides being 1.0% (IQR: 0.7–3.3) and for stepfathers 7.4% (IQR: 3.1–17.4).

A trend analysis of homicide data from the annual Homicide Survey conducted by Statistics Canada (total sample number: 1,612 cases) indicates that 57 per cent of those accused of filicide during the period 1961–2011 were males.77 (Filicide was defined, for the purposes of the analysis, as the killing of a child under the age of 18 years by a biological parent or step-parent.)78 Throughout the period analysed, paternal filicide consistently made up the greater proportion of such cases, but the gender gap increased with time.

Focusing exclusively on the period 1994–2011, it can be seen that slightly more than one quarter of the total sample of cases involved a history of family violence (26 per cent). Fathers made up by far the largest share (79 per cent) of the accused, outnumbering mothers (21 per cent) by a ratio of almost 4:1 – a pattern that became more pronounced over the period in question. Revenge and/or jealousy rooted in a desire to exert power and control over women, which are also risk factors for family violence, were identified as motives for filicidal fathers more frequently than for filicidal mothers.

I really need to go to bed...

To think male violence will never end?
YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:49

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:46

I'm not silencing anyone.

Disagreeing with is a different thing. You're the one silencing me.

It is a vendetta. that's exactly what it is.

"Brave" is the PP earlier up the thread sharing her experiences. "Brave" are the victims of any crime, female, male or alien. "Brave" is the family of that kid mentioned in the OP - the family of both kids.

You, starting a thread on mumsnet and then making stupid comments to people who dont agree with you, are nt brave. Far, far from it. Deluded.

I know you’re troll, so I’m not giving you anymore attention.

I hope one day you realise how silly you were here today.

OP posts:
stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:50

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:47

”Violent speech”!!

Yo’re all over the place.
F word and you’re scared.

But men commiting most violent crimes and almost all rapes is nothing to you.

So strange.

Have you thought about getting your priorities checked?

Yeah, I'm terrified of you.

You have a strange opinion of yourself. Very entitled.

Never said it was nothing to me. I'm just not anti men.

It's always the ones who claim to want to protect women who bully other women for having a different opinion, and then wonder why people don't want to jump onboard with their cause.

Maybe it's because you're so bloody unpleasant.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 22:51

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 22:49

I know you’re troll, so I’m not giving you anymore attention.

I hope one day you realise how silly you were here today.

if I was a troll I wouldn't be biting my tongue as much as I am.

Oh im sure I will. You have inspired me forever.

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