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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think male violence will never end?

672 replies

YouAreNotBatman · 04/05/2022 15:26

I was reading the news about 14 year old boy raping and killing a 10 year old girl and I just became so tired.
So tired of endless violence boys and men do to girls and women.
And how they don’t care, they seem to think it’s funny or get angry at any woman who try and speak about it.

OP posts:
stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 21:39

brookstar · 04/05/2022 21:37

How many of those above factors contributed to the crime committed in the OP?
They contribute to how men view women which In turn influences how they treat women (and other men)
This also has an impact on how we raise our children. Therefore the cycle continues.

The thread is looking at more than the specific case highlighted and is looking at male violence against women in general.

If the above case was a man, I'd agree.

Supersee · 04/05/2022 21:42

I'm not interested in reading about that particular case. What is my argument, I don't have one! I have an opinion, which is male violence towards women (and other men) is a problem which far outweighs women violence towards men, and will it ever stop.

Keep banging on about that particular case and talking in circles if you want.

brookstar · 04/05/2022 21:42

If the above case was a man, I'd agree.

Again, we're talking about male violence against women in general. Not necessarily a specific case. However, that 14 year old boy will not have been raised in a vacuum and will have been influenced by his family, peers, etc which will have shaped his views on women/girls. Which will have influenced his actions.

leadmeaway · 04/05/2022 21:44

Well, we know that’s not true as well, don’t we? Because men hating women results in them killing two women per week in the UK.

😂Well they must really hate other men more because 8 men per week are murdered.

We can all play on numbers cant we!

ldontWanna · 04/05/2022 21:44

To add to my previous post.

Do they laugh about genuinely nice men?
Do they use terms like beta male,pussy whipped, simp, weakling etc?
Do they shut down other men when they are struggling or trying to talk about an issue?
Do they promote the idea of "real men"?
Do they equate any weakness with female.. throw/cry like a girl etc?
Do they egg each other on and encourage escalating behaviours?
Do they make it acceptable to ask for and seek help, whatever the problem might be?
Do they look after their mates when they are drunk and their behaviour is dangerous/unacceptable?
Do they stand up?
Do they speak out?

Featuredcreature · 04/05/2022 21:45

Like arguing on the Internet.

Pumperthepumper · 04/05/2022 21:45

leadmeaway · 04/05/2022 21:44

Well, we know that’s not true as well, don’t we? Because men hating women results in them killing two women per week in the UK.

😂Well they must really hate other men more because 8 men per week are murdered.

We can all play on numbers cant we!

By whom?

TruthHertz · 04/05/2022 21:46

Pumperthepumper · 04/05/2022 21:28

Testosterone theory has never reached any definitive conclusions, as far as I’m aware. Do you have a link?

Male suicide stats are so high because men generally chose more violent methods - I worked for a male suicide charity for a while - that are likely to be more successful. Attempted suicide stats show little difference between sexes, as the methods tend to be more easily rectified (such as stomach pumping).

Testosterone has been discussed on here loads of times before but people seem to ignore the bits they don't like. As I've got to be up at 4am, I'm going to be lazy and just cut and paste a post from a previous thread.

There's a lot of evidence to suggest that testosterone is a significant factor in human aggression, although some studies have concluded that high testosterone alone isn't always a predictor of aggression - like how some dog breeds have a greater capacity for aggression but are not always aggressive as individuals.

"When male robins enter the breeding season, their testosterone level rises. They become aggressive and amorous. Testosterone has remarkably similar effects on men."

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/200907/sex-violence-and-hormones?amp

"In non-human animals, the relationship between testosterone and aggression is well established."

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135917890000032X

"There is evidence that testosterone levels are higher in individuals with aggressive behavior, such as prisoners who have committed violent crimes."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/

"We were able to show for the first time that increasing levels of testosterone within the normal physiological range can have a profound effect on brain circuits that are involved in threat-processing and human aggression."

www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/testosterone-in-healthy-men-increases-their-brains-response-to-threat

"Inmates who had committed personal crimes of sex and violence had higher testosterone levels than inmates who had committed property crimes of burglary, theft, and drugs. Inmates with higher testosterone levels also violated more rules in prison, especially rules involving overt confrontation."

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/019188699400177T

"Higher testosterone levels are related to criminal violence and aggressive dominance among women in prison."

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/09/970927110900.htm

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 21:46

Supersee · 04/05/2022 21:42

I'm not interested in reading about that particular case. What is my argument, I don't have one! I have an opinion, which is male violence towards women (and other men) is a problem which far outweighs women violence towards men, and will it ever stop.

Keep banging on about that particular case and talking in circles if you want.

You're not interesting i reading about the case given by the OP as a reason to discuss male violence, you just want to talk about male violence because it suits you.

"Banging on" about a murdered 10 year old child.

You're an absolute delight.

Pumperthepumper · 04/05/2022 21:46

(Hint: it’s still male violence)

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 21:47

TruthHertz · 04/05/2022 21:46

Testosterone has been discussed on here loads of times before but people seem to ignore the bits they don't like. As I've got to be up at 4am, I'm going to be lazy and just cut and paste a post from a previous thread.

There's a lot of evidence to suggest that testosterone is a significant factor in human aggression, although some studies have concluded that high testosterone alone isn't always a predictor of aggression - like how some dog breeds have a greater capacity for aggression but are not always aggressive as individuals.

"When male robins enter the breeding season, their testosterone level rises. They become aggressive and amorous. Testosterone has remarkably similar effects on men."

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/200907/sex-violence-and-hormones?amp

"In non-human animals, the relationship between testosterone and aggression is well established."

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135917890000032X

"There is evidence that testosterone levels are higher in individuals with aggressive behavior, such as prisoners who have committed violent crimes."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/

"We were able to show for the first time that increasing levels of testosterone within the normal physiological range can have a profound effect on brain circuits that are involved in threat-processing and human aggression."

www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/testosterone-in-healthy-men-increases-their-brains-response-to-threat

"Inmates who had committed personal crimes of sex and violence had higher testosterone levels than inmates who had committed property crimes of burglary, theft, and drugs. Inmates with higher testosterone levels also violated more rules in prison, especially rules involving overt confrontation."

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/019188699400177T

"Higher testosterone levels are related to criminal violence and aggressive dominance among women in prison."

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/09/970927110900.htm

Jump over to the anti-trans threads where allowing children to take testosterone is the worst crime ever. It only applies sometimes.

Supersee · 04/05/2022 21:47

It's just one case of many many many cases committed by males against females. If we were to go through specific cases we'd be here all night.

Again, the irony.

leadmeaway · 04/05/2022 21:48

Pumperthepumper · 04/05/2022 21:46

(Hint: it’s still male violence)

So what and your not so intelligent point is?

Pumperthepumper · 04/05/2022 21:48

TruthHertz · 04/05/2022 21:46

Testosterone has been discussed on here loads of times before but people seem to ignore the bits they don't like. As I've got to be up at 4am, I'm going to be lazy and just cut and paste a post from a previous thread.

There's a lot of evidence to suggest that testosterone is a significant factor in human aggression, although some studies have concluded that high testosterone alone isn't always a predictor of aggression - like how some dog breeds have a greater capacity for aggression but are not always aggressive as individuals.

"When male robins enter the breeding season, their testosterone level rises. They become aggressive and amorous. Testosterone has remarkably similar effects on men."

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/200907/sex-violence-and-hormones?amp

"In non-human animals, the relationship between testosterone and aggression is well established."

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135917890000032X

"There is evidence that testosterone levels are higher in individuals with aggressive behavior, such as prisoners who have committed violent crimes."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/

"We were able to show for the first time that increasing levels of testosterone within the normal physiological range can have a profound effect on brain circuits that are involved in threat-processing and human aggression."

www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/testosterone-in-healthy-men-increases-their-brains-response-to-threat

"Inmates who had committed personal crimes of sex and violence had higher testosterone levels than inmates who had committed property crimes of burglary, theft, and drugs. Inmates with higher testosterone levels also violated more rules in prison, especially rules involving overt confrontation."

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/019188699400177T

"Higher testosterone levels are related to criminal violence and aggressive dominance among women in prison."

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/09/970927110900.htm

I’m not going through all of these but just to pick one, it’s not a definitive link.

To think male violence will never end?
stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 21:49

Pumperthepumper · 04/05/2022 21:46

(Hint: it’s still male violence)

Yet not remotely comparable to a crime committed by an adult man.

Supersee · 04/05/2022 21:49

leadmeaway · 04/05/2022 21:44

Well, we know that’s not true as well, don’t we? Because men hating women results in them killing two women per week in the UK.

😂Well they must really hate other men more because 8 men per week are murdered.

We can all play on numbers cant we!

So doesn't that say, the problem is..... men!

Pumperthepumper · 04/05/2022 21:50

leadmeaway · 04/05/2022 21:48

So what and your not so intelligent point is?

That men killing women and men killing men are not opposites. They’re the same thing - male violence. That’s not playing on numbers.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 21:50

Supersee · 04/05/2022 21:47

It's just one case of many many many cases committed by males against females. If we were to go through specific cases we'd be here all night.

Again, the irony.

But we aren't going through specific cases.

I am referring directly to the one in the bloody OP.

Just because it doesnt suit your narrative doesnt mean you can ignore it. If the case was remotely relative to your narrative youd be right on it.

Pumperthepumper · 04/05/2022 21:50

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 21:49

Yet not remotely comparable to a crime committed by an adult man.

How do you mean?

ldontWanna · 04/05/2022 21:51

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 04/05/2022 21:34

Of course they dont want to discuss the original case, because that would mean many of the posts above (such as yours) wouldn't have a leg to stand on, because none of those things are in any way related to the 14 year old doing the killing.

I can't make any guesses about the 14 yo because I have no idea about his background and it would be all speculation. Reading the articles I have have some suspicions, but they are not facts, just an impression I had in regards to his identity/possible connection to the victim. From there I could extrapolate which from my list would apply (like porn,friend zone/incel attitudes for example) or come up with something completely different like trauma/mental health issues/drugs but it could all be bullshit as I don't actually have the facts.

That's why I'm talking in general, about men/boys, not this particular 14 yo boy.

I can talk about others if you'd like, of which I have direct experience and can definitely tell you why.

leadmeaway · 04/05/2022 21:51

Supersee · 04/05/2022 21:49

So doesn't that say, the problem is..... men!

Errrm nope, so that's your phycological evaluation of murder MEN! WOW.

leadmeaway · 04/05/2022 21:53

Pumperthepumper · 04/05/2022 21:50

That men killing women and men killing men are not opposites. They’re the same thing - male violence. That’s not playing on numbers.

So you are accepting you are omitting all murders committed by females then, thank you for proving your full blown bias on the matter.

Supersee · 04/05/2022 21:54

Good for you, discuss that case given in the OP all you want. Myself, and others, want to talk GENERALLY about violence from males and boys towards women and girls, also mentioned in the OP without necessarily discussing said particular case.

Which we are perfectly entitled to do. It's not difficult to understand (despite you struggling with this concept).

Supersee · 04/05/2022 21:55

The majority is committed by men, yes.

Pumperthepumper · 04/05/2022 21:55

leadmeaway · 04/05/2022 21:53

So you are accepting you are omitting all murders committed by females then, thank you for proving your full blown bias on the matter.

What? You asked me specifically about men killing men. The answer is still male violence!