To think male violence will never end?

[YouAreNotBatman]

I was reading the news about 14 year old boy raping and killing a 10 year old girl and I just became so tired.
So tired of endless violence boys and men do to girls and women.
And how they don’t care, they seem to think it’s funny or get angry at any woman who try and speak about it.

Maybe on MN.

In the real world I know numerous very nice, very kind men who wear pink shirts.

I have also never heard anyone in real life use the words boys will be boys.

Again, are you ok?

Women can sexually assault men, of course. No one ever said they couldn’t. And men can be victims of rape by other men. But women can’t rape men in England and Wales. That’s a matter of law. The offence of rape is committed using a penis.

Would it help you to understand if I find the statutory definitions of rape and sexual assault?

Here on MN, they are all utterly perfect, purely victims, never perpetrators, and hiding in the shadows from evil men.

Again, I've never said that so you can stop putting words in my mouth.

I've never said all men are violent or evil.
I've never said women aren't ever violent

Please read what I actually write.

Under UK law women cannot rape. That doesn't mean they can't carry out sexual assaults, it doesn't mean all women are all 'utterly perfect' but as far as the law is concerned they can't be rapists.

Still spending a lot of time on mumsnet being snide about people on mumsnet.

You might not have heard it, that doesn’t mean it’s not said. And you might know lovely men who wear pink, that doesn’t mean forcing boys and girls into different socialisation from a very young age doesn’t happen. It does, and that’s exactly where it begins.

It would help if you got some empathy and compassion and stopped playing word games about real life experiences that can destroy lives. That would really help.

I'm not snide about mumsnet i general, as you pointed out I do spemd a lot of time.

But on this particular issue, I don't find it reflective of the real world.

You have all literally made up reasons why this boy did what he did without actually looking to understand why. And you can call that justification, or excusing, but ultimately - the longer we spend getting offended at people lookinig for reasons why crimes happen rather than making them up, the more people suffer.

It's not word games, it's the law. Not sure how that fact isn't getting through.

its depressing why we can’t not just hear woman voices or discuss violence that men have inflected on girls and women

we never can the discussions always go the same way

it makes me angry and sad

According to the law in some countries, a man can rape his wife.

Doesn't make it right.

I'm a woman. I'm discussing violence.

Is that not OK because I don't share the same viewpoint? that makes me angry and sad.

Yes, you keep saying ‘the real world’.

So you don’t believe the difference in socialisation of girls vs boys happens? Or you don’t believe it has any long term consequences?

Oh i get your fact.

We all know that men can be found not guilty for crimes they committed. due to technicalities in the law.

Doesn't make it right.

Neither.

I don't understand why thats been plucked out of thin air to explain this boys abhorrent crime. We didn't bother looking for those reasons. Why? Because we're not bloody interested. Much easier to just write a thread about awful men and watch the responses flood in.

I wrote those reasons.

Boys vs girls is not the only reason, but it absolutely is one that makes a massive difference in how little boys see the world.

The discussion is about male violence towards women/girls it’s not a matter of opinion

Course it is.

The discussion should surely be why the boy committed the crime and what we can do to prevent them?

It'd be a pretty short discussion if we were asking whether the crime was male violence.

I completely disagree.

And incidentally, we're npt really helping that as adults, if these boards are anything to go by.

@stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou why do you disagree?

I’m not playing word games. It’s the law. It’s fact. I’ve got plenty of empathy. But empathy based on facts.

Well, I don't think the separation of boys vs girls , as you mean it, colours and games and so on, actually contributes to the long lasting damage that causes things like rape and murder.

I think that life factors are far more likely. Yes, you get your odd notorious murderer who wanted to kill blondes, or preyed on women, but ecen they have their (sick) motivations from somewhere. And many of these, as much as we don't like to admit it, are related to their relationships with people in their life.

I personally feel that the damsel in distress/must be saved narrative from us being young girls doesn't do us any favours either.

As someone up thread said far more succintly than me, violent men have far more in common with violent women, equally with victims of both sex.

So why, when male domestic abuse or male rape (and yes, I'm using that word) is used on here, why is it diminished? Why is it one long sliding scale? Do you not think we could learn from all victims of domestic abuse or violent assault, and they us? Does the fact they are less likely to be seriously injured or dead mean their experiences arent valid?

Daily, even now, we see comedy performances of women verbally or physically abusing men. That is viewed very differently than men on women - if anything, I think that thats the one thats played off as "comedy", rather than boys will be boys.

So is a man being found not guilty. So is a man raping his wife in some cultures. So is someone gettung a reduced sentence on technicalities.

Doesn't make it right.

To answer the original question no. I don’t think violence by men (or women for that matter) will ever stop. Are there things that can reduce it, definitely. I am not a professional or a victim/survivor. these are off the top of my head.

well resourced DV services

-well resourced children services, police and trained lawyers to tackle violence when it occurs, if necessary find places of safety or if a parent will not (or due to circumstances) cannot protect a child that they are taken into care. This can help with breaking cycle of seeing violence as the way things are dealt with.

more and earlier available mental health services and less stigma to approaching this.

boys and men being taught about male privilege and equality and how they can tackle it - and being praised when they do

From an early stage boys and girls being taught about and seeing equality in practice. First will be parents and care givers - are boys and girls treated differently by their parents/grandparents/at nursery or child minder?

teaching all children that feelings are acceptable and strategies to deal with anger, rage, fear, embarrassment that do not involve physical violence but also not other behaviour that can be self defeating such as aggression/verbal abuse.

I think you’ll be able to have a much more constructive discussion if you drop all this thing about male victims being diminished. It’s not true - and you’re separating men and women in a way you’re saying doesn’t make any difference in boys and girls.

How little boys view the world absolutely affects how men see the world. So if you don’t agree with toys and clothes, what about sexual entertainment?

Way I see it.... a small proportion of men commit the majority of violent crime, but what gets up a lot of people's noses is that the percentage of feminists that hate men is seemingly much higher than the percentage of men that hate women. People get sick of the constant man bashing when it's far more common for the average man to support women's issues than it is for the average woman to support men's issues.

Loads of men claim to be feminists but I've literally never heard a woman claim to be a male rights activist.

Well, we know that’s not true as well, don’t we? Because men hating women results in them killing two women per week in the UK. Off the top of your head, how many men are being killed by women every week?