Is this racist?

[ToastedWaffle]

Okay.... so my ex was over at my house tonight to see our kids (he often does this).

Eldest DC was brushing their teeth whilst the same time trying to ask my ex a question.

Because you couldn't make out the words DC was saying with the toothbrush in their mouth, ex then proceeds to imitate the 'sound' saying something like "wah sah wah ha insert random sound here Are you Chinese or something?"

I've just had my arse handed to me by my ex for pointing out it was casually racist and could he not say things like that.

He has kicked up a massive stink which involved shouting, swearing, in which I asked him to leave. Still, the kids overheard him as he was being deliberately loud in shouting at me.

I'm sat here confused as hell.

I'd love to be the metaphorical fly on the wall in an interview room when a virtue signaler about positive discrimination who could be a hard working white woman with debts and kids is told " well you are the best candidate but sorry we can't hire you because you're white".

Using skin tone to hire regardless of supposed moral agendas is disgusting for the alleged "greater good"

Equity is important

What is Equity in your view and how do you go about achieving it?

You're saying the same things as me but acting as if you're arguing something different to me... it's utterly bizarre at this point!

You seem determined to argue but you're agreeing with my points and I'm glad you have now said you accept the definition of white privilege I shared earlier and that you just don't understand how defining it helps anyone.

I'm not sure what else I can say to you really as I can't see how you're engaging in good faith.

So if a uni specifically looks to engage young women to study STEM subjects, or was to offer a grant specifically to a number of female students each year, you think that's wrong unless there is also a recruitment drive for young men specifically and the exact same number of scholarships are offered to males?
Again, when you discuss the issue of jalrs domination in these jobs, it's a very good initiative.

When your son, who has worked very hard at his local comp, managed 3 A* when the average is a C, has work e patience etc...gets turn down to allow your neighbour girl, going to private school, getting Bs, no work experience to have the one place left, then yes, there is certainly an element of injustice.

I don't! I don't know what your answer will be and I don't 'hope' it will be anything, I just asked a question as I was interested in your answer and this is a discussion forum. Obviously you don't have to answer.

This is a forum, conversations and discussions develop and analogies / other applications of a similar theory can be a useful way of understanding each other's points of view.

You don't have the authority to tell people they have to stick to a certain topic when they ask a question. You have the right not to answer it but to it's silly to say other people can't reference any other relevant concepts when talking about other examples of discrimination / privilege.

In this context, acknowledging white privilege accomishes what?

Change your attitude perhaps?

I was talking to a policeman recently who openly complained about the inconvenience caused by Sarah Everard. I couldn't quite believe my ears.

He was describing how police (on call) now have to pass a woman a phone so they can call a centre to tell them who the male officer is and their location. What a rigmarole he said.

I relayed this disturbing encounter with a female friend about a week later, having had ample opportunity to advise her of this change in procedure before but it not really registering.

I think there are two instances of male privilege there. One clear and another less so but two instances nonetheless.

Again, if you say this to a French person, and they tell you they find it very offensive, would you apologise -so admit it was wrong to say it- or are you going to give them a lecture that context is everything, that it's part of history and therefore they are wrong to be offended?

Yes, if I offended someone I’d apologise, I’d refrain from saying it again to them and I wouldn’t be lecturing anyone. I don’t want to upset people. However, if their offence really was just a response to me saying ‘pardon my French’ I’d not be admitting it was wrong. Because I think it’s difficult to make a sensible case for it being something to be reasonably offended by.

Let me be clear - I think your offended French person is purely fictional. I don’t think any rational French person is offended by this. I think it’s actually absurd that you’re typing out a scenario where a French person finds the phrase pardon my French ‘very offensive’.

You must know this is ridiculous.

You may as well draw a false equivalence between outright racist slurs and causing someone mortal offence by saying their favourite band or football team is crap. We all know some people take things like that very personally - it’s not reasonable or on a par with racism though, is it?

Is evidencing the context more important than how the person feels about our behaviour?

Not sure it’s about evidencing anything. I’m saying context dictates why it’s reasonable to treat offence at some things as more serious than others.

@Fieldsofdaffodils

It wasn't an eg, it was a fact illustrating how absurd some of the comments in the thread of for eg

So your experiences aren't examples, they are 'facts', but when Beware says she can give example of Asians being attacked, you respond with 'Ive no doubt you could but what's your point?'

Truly laughable.

I'm confused as to why you're either unwilling or unable to recognise the validity of white privilege as a concept and don't understand why. as you seem to agree that when all else is equal white people don't have to tackle racism at a systemic level on top of anything else they're going through... which is the meaning of white privilege!
We are I deed saying the same thing, the difference, I think, I'd that I consider it totally pointless when ultimately it doesn't mean one has it forcibly harder than someone else. What is the point of it?

It would be like saying that kids who have married parents have a privilege over those whose parents are separated. So all equal, both struggle with getting in the university they both want, but the one kid on top of that had to deal with growing up with divorced parents.

Except that maybe the former had abusive parents whilst the latter had loving parents who got along great.

What is the point of bring up that the first was privileged just because his parents were married? It might be a fact but it's total futil in the circumstances.

I relayed this disturbing encounter with a female friend about a week later, having had ample opportunity to advise her of this change in procedure before but it not really registering

Why did you need to call a friend to warn her about a detailed police procedure?

Why are people using examples of crying Frenchmen to argue the idea that mocking the Chinese isn't racist?

😂

She has you there, @mustlovegin .

I was talking to a policeman recently who openly complained about the inconvenience caused by Sarah Everard. I couldn't quite believe my ears

I've never seen a policeman opening their hearts and complaining to a random on the street

😂

Coz they've lost the plot.

Because it's something all women should be aware of?

She has you there

No, she doesn't know what I think about positive sex discrimination at work. As it's not relevant to the thread I would rather not discuss it. Anyone is free to talk about it though, I'm not the thread police

@Discovereads exactly and a chinese person has said they wouldn't be offended also yet everyone is offended for them anyway ?
Not a clever comment and a simple don't speak with your mouth full as I can't understand you would be better

I've never seen a policeman opening their hearts and complaining to a random on the street

I used to have a shop opposite a cop shop in London. They love whinging as much as any other pom 😂

Im glad you find a member of my family being kicked unconscious suffering a blood clot on the brain laughable. Beware is under the impression that racism only works one way or else why would she cite numerous egs of asians being attacked?

I note you haven't responded to my question relating to how you think a white Christian would get on in many asian /african countries all well known for their equal rites on race / sex and tolerance compared to what many describe as this awful racist hellhole ( the Uk). I think we all know the answer to that one

They love whinging as much as any other pom

Maybe amongst themselves, but not with randoms. Odd comment

When your son, who has worked very hard at his local comp, managed 3 A when the average is a C, has work e patience etc...gets turn down to allow your neighbour girl, going to private school, getting Bs, no work experience to have the one place left, then yes, there is certainly an element of injustice*

That's probably because grades aren't the sole criteria for successful employment. I've interviewed lots of engineers for aerospace jobs and quite often the A* student isn't the best person for the job. This is determined by a series of personality and aptitude tests. So it's quite possible I might opt for a female candidate with lower grades than a male with higher (or vice versa).

However, in the case where two very close candidates were male/female. I might just opt for the female as studies have shown that greater diversity leads to greater productivity and successful products. So the best outcome could be just looking at a bigger picture.

Of course it really bugs me when people bang on about the 'best person for the job' assuming that is how it's always been. We know that it's not always been the best person for the job as nepotism, sexism, racism, jobs for the boys has been a massive thing for aeons.

@OneTC wow do you not think pOm is derogatory ? Or is that ok

It would be like saying that kids who have married parents have a privilege over those whose parents are separated. So all equal, both struggle with getting in the university they both want, but the one kid on top of that had to deal with growing up with divorced parents.

If research shows a disparity like this then it absolutely is useful because it allows the powers that be to put in place support for single or separated parents and their children to help tackle the root causes of that disparity.

The same applies for white privileged. It isn't about saying 'so and so has it worse than you' it's about saying 'there are systemic reasons that non white people are being specifically disadvantaged by their race and we need to work on ways to reduce and eradicate those specific disadvantages'.

It's never pointless to label a problem if that then means that we can start working on solutions.

Adoption is an example. In the UK white children are statistically more likely to be in care than white children and less likely to be adopted than white children. Research also shows that children thrive in families that share and understand their cultural heritage. That's why in the last 20 years or so there have been specific recruitment drives to engage non white families in the adoption process. Sure, people could have said well it is what it is, but by identifying the issue and the white privilege involved, it can start to be tackled. None of that means that white children in care have an easy life or don't deserve to also be adopted. It just means a different approach is required to address the issues specific to those who aren't white.

... and it wasn't intended to be. I was commenting on people saying "Well one Chinese person says it isn't racist".
Admittedly it wasn't very clear.

@youvegottenminuteslynn but you do have to be careful about going to far the other way , no point employing someone who isn't fit for a job because they tick your diversity box , thats no good for anyone