Is this racist?

[ToastedWaffle]

Okay.... so my ex was over at my house tonight to see our kids (he often does this).

Eldest DC was brushing their teeth whilst the same time trying to ask my ex a question.

Because you couldn't make out the words DC was saying with the toothbrush in their mouth, ex then proceeds to imitate the 'sound' saying something like "wah sah wah ha insert random sound here Are you Chinese or something?"

I've just had my arse handed to me by my ex for pointing out it was casually racist and could he not say things like that.

He has kicked up a massive stink which involved shouting, swearing, in which I asked him to leave. Still, the kids overheard him as he was being deliberately loud in shouting at me.

I'm sat here confused as hell.

I explained a concept and gave some examples
The problem is that tou started talking about the concept of white privilege as a whole.

That I totally agree with you. If you could.pare races, whites without a doubt have it and always had it better.

When it goes wrong in my view os when this is then applied on individual basis as you've had with your examples especially when not taking into consideration personal circumstances.

The whole is not the accumulation of all. That's not as evidence is based. Just as science has evidenced that breasfed babies have better health outcomes than bottlefed ones, doesn't mean all breasfed babies are healthier than bottledfed ones. That's not how factual interpretation works.

Being aware of ones' privilege as a race doesn't make that person more privileged as an individual.

you mention you can give numerous egs of asians being attacked by white people, what's your point other than implying the white race is more violent?

in guessing they mean it's statistically more relevant. Which is true. Not that white people are more violent.

I do think though, that in the realm of violent attacks, that power balances are temporarily suspended.

This also has little to do with a thread about a racist comment and the general attitude towards racism directed at Chinese people

@Fieldsofdaffodils likewise, thanks for not tagging me.

Again, where in my posts have I mentioned white people? Did I say Asian people/East Asian people attacked by white people, or did you misread that/make it up? Did I mention what racial group my husband was harassed by? Have the courtesy to go back and check and stop making things up. It’s weird.

It’s not picking and choosing, though, @vivainsomnia. Its looking at power structures, historic and present. It’s about whether your joke or stereotype is punching up or down - or across, in the case of Anglo-French relations.

You can only view the things you’ve mentioned in your posts as equally harmful / innocuous if you refuse to consider the context around them. In real life, context is everything.

I would be mortified if my kids did this to someone in the playground (and we live in a country where white people are the minority).

Im sorry that racist hate speech happened to your DH, but surely you can understand that the two situations- OPs and your DHs are worlds apart and to compare them is in my opinion, a false equivalence?

Where do you think the adults who were doing this learnt it in the first place? I really don’t think they are worlds apart at all.

When it goes wrong in my view os when this is then applied on individual basis as you've had with your examples especially when not taking into consideration personal circumstances.

I genuinely don't think you're reading my posts properly.

I said when all else is equal, being white means someone hasn't also had to deal with racism on top of everything else.

Being white doesn't mean someone's life has been easy, it means their skin colour isn't one of the things that's made it harder. That's white privilege.

I'm confused as to why you're either unwilling or unable to recognise the validity of white privilege as a concept and don't understand why. as you seem to agree that when all else is equal white people don't have to tackle racism at a systemic level on top of anything else they're going through... which is the meaning of white privilege!

How did Beware apply it on an individual basis? She's been arguing the opposite.

I honestly think you and some others are just bashing the keyboard without any logic at this point.

I mean @youvegottenminuteslynn not Beware

Racism occurs in all countries , you have stated you can give numerous egs of asians being attacked... Ive no doubt you could but what's your point? The problem isn't white people/ black people or the Uk but the human race in general which has vile individuals in it living worldwide. The idea that the Uk is a disproportionately racist country when compared to other countries is ridiculous- how do you think for eg a small number of white Christians would get on living in various African/ middle eastern countries? I suppose it would be all peaches and cream with them wandering the streets in complete safety

Racism occurs in all countries , you have stated you can give numerous egs of asians being attacked... Ive no doubt you could but what's your point? The problem isn't white people/ black people or the Uk but the human race in general which has vile individuals in it living worldwide.

Well, what was your point with giving an example of Asians attacking a white man?

youvegottenminuteslynn

Look, I think you need to stop going by political rhetoric and try and form a more critical and up-to-date view of what's happening in the UK in 2022.

'white-privilege' as a concept is at worst flawed and at best lacking geographical and situational context and outdated.

Also I hold very little intellectual regard for those who have no objection to positive discrimination. Either we are all equal or we aren't

When it goes wrong in my view os when this is then applied on individual basis as you've had with your examples especially when not taking into consideration personal circumstances.

My examples were literally if the elderly woman was the same person but not white, she would have faced all the same hardships AND racism in her life. And that if I was the same child I was in care but hadn't been white, I would have faced all the same hardships AND racism in my life.

I've done the exact opposite of what you've claimed and said if the personal circumstances WERE exactly the same and only race was different, absence of white privilege would have meant the person had to deal with all the same hardships AND racism on top.

You either didn't read my posts properly or are being wilfully disingenuous in misrepresenting what I've said.

Positive discrimination is illegal. Positive action is legal. If positive action was never used, women and minorities would be under represented on an even wider level than they already are. I hold little regard for people comfortable with that.

Also you don't seem to understand the difference between equality and equity. I note you didn't address my question re male privilege and whether you think that just because some women are paid more than men or some companies specifically want to have more women on their board, that means male privilege no longer exists?

It wasn't an eg, it was a fact illustrating how absurd some of the comments in the thread of for eg

" If you think it isn't racist you must be white ".

" Who are you to say you’re not offended? You’re not Chinese or even East Asian! Fuck off! Oh, and most children who get shit English grades are white."

"I'm not east asian, yet I can feel every word in your post. Most white people never have to endure this so find it hard to understand what it is like."

"The media kept hush hush about the dramatic increase in racial attacks against East Asians during the past couple of years.

"French isn't a race. They are also anglo saxon. Not African, Asian or Middle Eastern. So your false equivalence doesn't even pass the first hurdle.

And don't dare tell a non-white person to lighten up"

Its looking at power structures, historic and present. It’s about whether your joke or stereotype is punching up or down - or across, in the case of Anglo-French relations
Again, if you say this to a French person, and they tell you they find it very offensive, would you apologise -so admit it was wrong to say it- or are you going to give them a lecture that context is everything, that it's part of history and therefore they are wrong to be offended?

Is evidencing the context more important than how the person feels about our behaviour?

Being white doesn't mean someone's life has been easy, it means their skin colour isn't one of the things that's made it harder. That's white privilege
OK, happy with that, but then so what? It sounds like saying to someone who is struggling to get a job, worried about feeding their kids and being told 'well at least you're white, so consider yourself lucky, if you were black, it would be much worse.

In this context, acknowledging white privilege accomishes what? Does it make it any easier for a black person?

I'm much more outcome focus than concept minded. I much rather fight to ensure that anyone has a fair chance to be offered a job based on their ability to carry out the job than going in about the fact that a white person hasn't got it harder because they are white.

I can’t believe posters are saying this isn’t racist!!! It’s extremely racist and I would be furious

Regardless of legality, positive discrimination stopping people applying for jobs purely for being white or male is disgusting and both sexist/ racist. You don't replace one set of discrimination issues with another.

My examples were literally if the elderly woman was the same person but not white, she would have faced all the same hardships AND racism in her life

The elderly, poor white woman would have experienced hardship AND racism in other places as well (maybe China or Africa?). Why are you ignoring this?

Going about shouting 'white privilege' as a mantra without any context or time references makes no sense

Either we are all equal or we aren't

This is such an incredibly simplistic way of thinking. Bafflingly so. Equity is important. Opportunity is important.

If there was never a push for girls and women in STEM, there would be (even) fewer females represented in STEM.

So if a uni specifically looks to engage young women to study STEM subjects, or was to offer a grant specifically to a number of female students each year, you think that's wrong unless there is also a recruitment drive for young men specifically and the exact same number of scholarships are offered to males?

nah, more of a do gooder wanting a bit of praise.

Someone earlier in the thread stated that something is racist if the person perceived it to be racist. Based upon that reasoning, I find the term "who're privilege" to be racist. I understand someone has explained the theory of the term of which I fully understand but this still does not detract from it being offensive and racist to some people.

My examples were literally if the elderly woman was the same person but not white, she would have faced all the same hardships AND racism in her life. And that if I was the same child I was in care but hadn't been white, I would have faced all the same hardships AND racism in my life
But that's not forcibly true though. Not everyone not white faces racism as individuals. That's my point.

Even if we assume that these people did, that doesn't forcing mean they had it worse than the other. They might have faced some racism but stayed with nicer, more caring foster families than the white kid who has never faced racism but was unlucky and stayed with horrible families. The latter might have ended up much more traumatised by the system. Its not fair to make assumptions on individuals just because of statistics.

That meant to say "white privilege". Phone autocorrect.

I note you didn't address my question re male privilege and whether you think that just because some women are paid more than men or some companies specifically want to have more women on their board, that means male privilege no longer exists?

No, I will not answer you question because we are discussing race, not sex on this thread. Also how do you know that my answer will be what you want to hear?

I understand someone has explained the theory of the term of which I fully understand but this still does not detract from it being offensive and racist to some people

Yes, but they will shout you down because you are not allowed to engage your brain and exercise any critical thinking apparently