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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why are people on here so pressed about the existence of SAHMs?

774 replies

DaffodilsandCoffee · 01/05/2022 18:21

It’s fair enough to point out the existence of certain downsides are risks, but there seems to be so much spite and resentment on here. Why are some posters do angry at the existence of women who prefer to do all the childcare themselves rather than outsource some of it? Also, are they equally as angry at SAHDs? (I know it’s not as common but I personally know 3)

OP posts:
TheKeatingFive · 01/05/2022 23:44

I agree it's less common, but I know four families where the Mum's career is the main one and the Dad's are either SAHD's or working p-t.

Its a tiny proportion of households where mothers are the SAHP.

Thepeopleversuswork · 01/05/2022 23:46

@Superhanz

Bingo

Congratulations for the most bigoted and insensitive post of the thread. Surprised it took this long tbh

This sort of answers the OP’s original question quite neatly as well. This sort of comment is the reason why working mums who may have previously been open and tolerant about the very valid reasons why women choose to stay at home go into self defence mode. It’s abhorrent. @Superhanz has it never crossed your small mind that some of us don’t have this choice?

Waferbiscuit · 02/05/2022 00:00
  1. Because, assuming the majority are in a heterosexual relationship, they have made a conscious decision to live off a man. That means a man pays for every aspect of their lives.
  2. Because by doing so they often create a set up that preferences men and that enables men in ways they also benefit from.
  3. They always GO ON about how they can't find a suitable job that fits around young children. They drone on and on about it and frankly it gets tedious. Yes, you probably can't be a pilot or do 24 hour shifts but there are lots of reasonable 9-5 jobs out there (that lots of single parents or mums who have to work do). However to take that kind of job means, god forbid, putting the dcs in morning care and aftercare and that is just a bridge too far for too many. In reality I think a lot of women just aren't interested in working those hours so have a vested interest in claiming there are no suitable jobs out there.
  4. Unfortunately in my small town being a SAHM mom was the default for those girls who lacked ambition, drive or personal interests. Best way to set yourself up if you didn't fancy education or working.
Ponderingwindow · 02/05/2022 00:05

Agreeeeed · 01/05/2022 23:29

Jealousy.
I think a lot of the harping on about sahm being financially precarious position is false concern stemming from Jealousy.
I appreciate some may be genuine I.e from people who have been stung in this position.

however people make lots of financially precarious choices, taking less stable jobs, buying overpriced lease cars, having another child that will make things a squeeze. Yet there doesn’t seem to be the Pearl clutching concern faux? Concern that goes with it.

I also think some people deep down aren’t secure with their own choices to return to work so they attack or belittle those who make different choices.

It’s not jealousy. I was a SAHM
when my child was young. I just made sure I had an exit plan.

The concern is legitimate fear. That fear comes from being a child trapped in an abusive home. Some who lived it end up repeating the pattern. Others like me come out of it with this instinct that we must be ever ready to defend ourselves and our children. When we see women making themselves and their children vulnerable it is upsetting because we know what it feels like when men stop behaving.

Dillidilly · 02/05/2022 00:27

Thepeopleversuswork · 01/05/2022 23:46

@Superhanz

Bingo

Congratulations for the most bigoted and insensitive post of the thread. Surprised it took this long tbh

This sort of answers the OP’s original question quite neatly as well. This sort of comment is the reason why working mums who may have previously been open and tolerant about the very valid reasons why women choose to stay at home go into self defence mode. It’s abhorrent. @Superhanz has it never crossed your small mind that some of us don’t have this choice?

I don't agree with Superhanz's comment, but what did you think about the comment by Botoxbotox that appears to have inspired it? Was that OK? Or equally unpleasant?

sst1234 · 02/05/2022 02:33

I’m sure it’s been said already on this thread, but what’s unreasonable is equating stay at home parenting with being on someone’s payroll. Being SAHP is not work. It’s stay at home parenting. The clue is in the name.

roadsweep · 02/05/2022 04:10

Ohhelpicantthinkofaname · 01/05/2022 18:46

Mostly I think they’re probably jealous. I know I was when mine were small. It used to really grate on me when SAHMs went on abort being soooo busy. I used to think ffs, I do everything you do and work as well.

I think it would bothered me less if they'd acknowledged they were in a privileged position rather than moaning. Most people would love to be in the privileged position of not having to work to make ends meet.

You didn't 'do everything they did and worked' because while you were working you weren't actively parenting.

roadsweep · 02/05/2022 04:27

Goldijobsandthe3bears · 01/05/2022 19:36

I would genuinely continue some form of working if I won the lottery, I need the stimulation.

And you couldn't figure out how to get that stimulation outside being in employment?

roadsweep · 02/05/2022 04:29

Topgub · 01/05/2022 19:41

Where was this thread with viscious things about sahms? Sounds a right laugh

I've never understood why sahms are so defensive and easily upset

Or why they let their ohs duck out of equal parenting

Or why they can't see the inherent sexism in their choice but other than that crack on 🤷‍♀️

Jesus. What a nasty post! You sound absolutely horrible

MountainDewer · 02/05/2022 05:06

Because of the irritating level of martyrdom?
Very few admit that being a SAHM is a privilege, and that they quite enjoy it (except for those who have disability etc).
Many claiming that they’re the reason for husband’s success.

Being a SAHM isn’t the same as a job. Yes, people can be paid to do each task but the stress of a job isn’t just ‘doing’ things. It’s performance, targets, bosses, etc. None of which a SAHM has.

MountainDewer · 02/05/2022 05:09

Rosebuud · 01/05/2022 22:12

I think it’s the emotive language used. In my experience in real life no one really gives a shit if someone gives up work, although they often won’t understand why and other working mums often don’t have anything in common with them.

on here though it’s all “ I did it to support my husbands career” “I wanted to raise my children myself” “why have kids to let someone else raise them” “we are raising the next generation” “I’m a full time mum unlike those who outsource” “they are all jealous of me” and loads of other quite unpleasant nonsense. Which then has people retaliating as it is nonsense. And much of it quite unpleasant.

the truth is some women do work because they have to.and would rather not.

Many many others work because they want to and do not perceive living off their husbands money, often on a budget as money is tight, no financial independence and doing all the domestic work as something they’d ever wish to do. But when someone says they would never do it, then they are attacked as being jealous and a liar.

it’s a vicious circle really.

Exactly!
Do what you want. No need to justify it, comes off as quite insecure.
and if your H doesn’t value you being a SAHM then why did you become one?

Dillidilly · 02/05/2022 05:12

sst1234 · 02/05/2022 02:33

I’m sure it’s been said already on this thread, but what’s unreasonable is equating stay at home parenting with being on someone’s payroll. Being SAHP is not work. It’s stay at home parenting. The clue is in the name.

Why is being a nanny 'work' then? Is it just the fact that money exchanges hands, because a nanny basically does what a SAHP does? Well probably less actually, because they only do things related to the children they care for, not the wider family/home. But no one says what a nanny actually does all day isn't 'work'.

By extrapolation, if a SAHP has any caring responsibilities, is that not 'work' either? So those mainly women who care for any children with additional needs, a disabled partner, a parent or parent-in-law with dementia, etc...they're not working incredibly hard then?
But when I did the same work in Social Care, I was actually 'working?

I think this all comes back to undervaluing (and underpaying) the work historically mainly done by women. How depressing.

MountainDewer · 02/05/2022 05:20

@Dillidilly

What’s the definition of ‘work’?
In relation to Labour done yes.

But in comparison to have a ‘job’:
Performance evaluations, targets, dealing with bosses. These are the stresses, and a SAHP doesn’t have them. So no matter what they ‘do’ they can’t compare it to a professional.

Looking after your own kids for example isn’t the same as looking after a stranger’s. You can take liberties with your own.

Caring for someone disabled/elderly is something else entirely, and for that I agree the levels of stress are very high!

But your average SAHP caring only for their non-disabled kids… not the same as paid work.

TBH this is only relevant in the context of ‘society should respect SAHP more’. I don’t understand. What ‘respect’? it’s only between you and your spouse. What other people think doesn’t matter.

Dillidilly · 02/05/2022 05:46

@MountainDewer I don't understand why we as women can't be supportive of the choices made by other women, and accept that sometimes these choices will be different from our own, sometimes they might be the same, or the same but at a different life stage.

Why do so many women pull other women down?
On this thread I think I have only seen one comment criticising working women (the 'goudge out my eyes' comment said in response to a PP saying exactly the same thing about being a SAHP). But there are many comments disparaging SAHPs.

I have been both a working mother and a SAHP at different points. I am happy in my life choices. I don't feel the need to criticise any woman who works. Or any woman (or man) who is a SAHP. By and large, we are all just people trying to do the best for ourselves and our families. Why would I want to pull people down over that?

Bunnycat101 · 02/05/2022 05:54

There can be a lot of nastiness on both sides of the debate which I think stems from the following sort of comments

SAHM: why have children if you won’t be there to look after them 24/7; I’m so busy and insisting being at home is the equivalent of 29 different professional jobs.

Wm: life would be so boring staying at home, you’re all handmaidens living on servitude and your husband will run off and leave you.

Its those sort of comments above that cause defensiveness and nastiness. There very rarely is a reasoned debate of pros/cons/ consideration of part-time work which would actually be helpful.

I work but have been debating a career break to stay at home. There are some really tough head v heart decisions and I don’t think it is as black and white as some try to make it. I am finding primary years much harder to be away than nursery years and really feeling hard that mine is in wrap-around a lot compared to her peers whose parents are always there to collect and do something after school. My other is still in nursery and I know the care she is getting is excellent so one day off with her in the week feels ok. I’d like to drop my hours a bit but I’ve worked so hard for my career, get a lot of mental stimulation and don’t want to give that up either.

SinaraSmith · 02/05/2022 06:12

Why is being a nanny 'work' then? Is it just the fact that money exchanges hands, because a nanny basically does what a SAHP does? Well probably less actually, because they only do things related to the children they care for, not the wider family/home. But no one says what a nanny actually does all day isn't 'work'.

Being a sahp is hard work. It’s not a paid job you are carrying out for someone else.

I have dogs. It doesn’t also mean I am dog walker and a doggy care worker. Or in fact a rescue worker, even though they are rescues.

It’s not an employed position that you are doing for another person, in exchange for money. Parenting is something all of us who have kids do. The decision you make every day for your kids, don’t have to be in line with the people ultimately responsible for the kids and the people who employ you.

Topgub · 02/05/2022 06:13

roadsweep · 02/05/2022 04:29

Jesus. What a nasty post! You sound absolutely horrible

Really?

🤣🤣

plinkyy · 02/05/2022 06:25

You didn't 'do everything they did and worked' because while you were working you weren't actively parenting.

Surely it depends. I work p/t & my dc are in school. Whether I'm working or not I'm not actively parenting them because they are in school.

SAHM: why have children if you won’t be there to look after them 24/7;

Also don't understand this criticism. I have most of the school holidays off but I still send my dc to camps etc or to gps for certain days. Am I terrible because when i'm not working I don't want to be with them 24/7? 😆

Classicblunder · 02/05/2022 06:33

Eupraxia · 01/05/2022 18:44

If you reframe the question as: If you won £10 million on the lottery, would you stay working? then most would happily give up working. Spend time with their children, volunteer, or take a part time job to keep you busy rather than pay the bills.

But frame it as becoming a SAHM and people can't imagine anything so boring as giving up work. As though if they were millionaires they'd still insist on continuing their job, just for the fun of it. Clearly with zero desire to want to retire.

What would most SAHMs do if they won the lottery? Continue looking after their children 24/7? Suspect almost all would get a nanny so that they could have a regular break. Every SAHM I know uses as much childcare as they can afford/free hours and if you look at what very wealthy women do, they "outsource" plenty of childcare.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 02/05/2022 06:34

If these people claiming they would never be a SAHM won £200 million on the lottery I doubt they’d continue to work in these jobs they claim to love to much

If I won 200million I'd quit my job, but I still wouldn't be a SAHM as I'd have a Nanny, Tutor, Housekeeper etc. All of which would cover the majority of the SAHM remit.

Namenic · 02/05/2022 06:37

Why don’t we just say something nice about the other way: if I were a sahm I’d like to go on more outings with the kids.

or if I was wohm, I’d love the extra cash to have a family weekend break/let the kids go on this cool educational course.

not all jobs are equally stressful. Nor is sahp (eg 3 under 5 vs above 7).

Some people set their own targets which they find stressful to meet (eg tidy/clean house, private education, certain type of house, home cooked food, helping kids with homework). Which is fine and understandable - though we each may not make all these choices personally.

GalactatingGoddess · 02/05/2022 06:50

@Louise0701 I have the utmost respect for SAHMs as I know that I would never ever want to be one.

I love to go to work, and whilst it can be tiring fitting everything in such a work/house/child related stuff/family time/friends, I appreciate being at work so much more after having a 12 month Mat leave. My god, towards the end I was frazzled.

SIL is a SAHP all day and then works evening shifts - she has the worst deal possible in this regard I would say and just looks and sounds tired..

I want my own money, I want to be part of paying household bills. And I definitely would still work if I won the lottery! Maybe a few hours less though (DD would still be in nursery part time though for my sanity)

Aussiegirl123456 · 02/05/2022 06:55

I don’t know why. It’s a shame. Both sides of the coin, working mothers are criticised too. It is very unnecessary. Working mothers are met with comments about how they don’t put their children first. Stay at home mothers are met with falsely veiled concern for future divorces and criticism for being lazy.

I’ve done both working and non working parenting. Each is enjoyable and challenging and each comes with a whole lot of prejudice, assumptions and negativity from strangers who aren’t impacted by those choices.

I'm ashamed to say, it’s largely women who are so opinionated and judgemental on the subject. When I was working full time, studying for my PhD and had young children, my wonderful DH was a stay at home parent. This genuinely allowed for me to concentrate fully on my career during the week instead of needing to juggle young children, sickness bugs and nursery opening times. He got so much praise, I got so much criticism (aw why don’t you want to be with your babies?). I constantly got told how fortunate I was to have the children’s dad at home raising the children so I could go to work. I knew I was lucky. I still am lucky. But so is he!

Those children are teenagers now and the roles have reversed. I’ve recently become a stay at home mum after we had an oopsie daisy but much wanted later in life baby. I am now asked ‘aw what do you do all day?’ and told that I am so lucky to be a kept woman.

I likely will return to work in a different field of work, but I am really enjoying living off my hard earned money and enjoying my little girl. I love picking up the older children from school. I’m barely ever at home during the day, and I know my husband appreciates what I do because he’s been in this position before. Though he has not once been told how lucky he is to have someone at home like I always was. Me being home and doing everything (which I am loving), does allow for his business to flourish because he can commit himself fully to it. Just like I did for my PhD and training contracts when I was beginning my legal career.

He is now running his own company and when I meet clients and colleagues at functions, I’m always asked what I do. When I respond that I’m currently a stay at home parent, I get looks of pity, talked down to as though I am a delinquent that doesn’t have the capability to string a sentence together, let alone find a job. I love to play along and just fulfil their expectations now, it’s my newest hobby. Prior to this I’d always get pestered for free legal advice anyway, so talking about Peppa Pig and play dates is much more relaxing.

It is just a shame that women have to justify their decision, whether they work or don’t. There is no shame in either. Just before I left my job, one of my students (my role prior to having the baby was teaching law at university) was likely the most intelligent person I’ve ever come across in my life, he had many work offers abroad on the table. He graduated and is now a gardener and pool maintenance guy. He’s actually working for me for a while before moving on to New Zealand. He claims the reason why is that he just wants a stress free and happy life. Fair play.

Norush4 · 02/05/2022 06:58

@Dillidilly I think people who are at home because there child has a disability or someone looking after their ill mother is a totally different matter all together. The main difference is that nobody would wish illness on their own child so they can stay at home. It's a bit insulting really come on. Also depending on the condition your child may have there's not a lot of "choice"

Hobnobswantshernameback · 02/05/2022 07:09

Well I suspect the OP got exactly what they wanted out of this thread
plus ca change

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