Why are people on here so pressed about the existence of SAHMs?

[DaffodilsandCoffee]

It’s fair enough to point out the existence of certain downsides are risks, but there seems to be so much spite and resentment on here. Why are some posters do angry at the existence of women who prefer to do all the childcare themselves rather than outsource some of it? Also, are they equally as angry at SAHDs? (I know it’s not as common but I personally know 3)

@mijas

I dont think anyone has said you shouldn't be?

I like being around my kids too.( A bit. Sometimes) Working doesn't stop that

Put it this way TopGub. My husband and I could do it your way and get exactly the same jobs, for exactly the same pay, for exactly the same hours. Then we could 'do childcare' for exactly the same hours. Hurray! Perhaps you may like us to draw up a rota. Then we can be all 'equal' as in 'the same' - kind of like drones of each other, if you will. What an exciting prospect! But would we be any happier? No we would not snd that's because that kind of set-up sounds suffocating, stifling and absolutely shite to be perfectly honest.

How are you going to feel if your daughter wants to be a SAHM? Or your son’s wife chooses to be a SAHM? Because they are female, are they going to be vilified for not supporting the ‘cause’?

I know there is gender inequality in our society, but it feels like you’re taking your frustrations out on women who don’t share your views. Or don’t choose the ‘correct’ path.

We humans must balance our own selfish desires with the greater good of society. That’s balancing act is what makes us so complicated, different and interesting. Some of us will be more ideological, others practical, and some others selfish. We all have this balancing act to figure out for ourselves, every day. I admire your strong desire in wanting to be a good role model for your children. Good luck.

@mijas

That seems a bit of a weird response.

You do you hun.

@Blackbird2020

I'm not taking my frustration out on anyone.

I'm just discussing the topic, same as others.

Do you think mijas is taking her frustration at being disagreed with out on me?

Or is that ok?

Dunno - just sounds a bit extreme, doing a symmetric split for the sake of fairness/ideology - when if you played to your strengths you could get stuff done better, quicker and have spare time/energy for extra stuff.

I did a job I wasn’t suited to for several years. I was v stressed out and miserable. I was happier when I did a career change. Would you be ok with your son being sahd? But not your daughter? Sometimes as pp have said life comes in phases - an opportunity abroad for 1 spouse or building a business, retraining. Having a strict split can close opportunities (though is probably less risky).

@MissChanandlerBong80 Thx for posting that Guardian piece.
amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jul/02/a-letter-to-my-wife-who-wont-get-a-job-while-i-work-myself-to-death

It stayed with me long after it was published, first because I really felt for the male experience and the difficulty of bearing the burden of being the sole income provider but secondly because of the shrill comments by all the women claiming the man was being incredibly unreasonable and his wife had a right to never work since that was what she wanted and what they agreed 20 years ago. Shocking insane entitlement.

@Namenic

Why would you presume an equal spilt of childcare doesn't play to our strengths?

I wouldnt be ok with either being a sahp. But as adults they're free to live their own lives

See this post kind of epitomises why many of us have said YABU.

Many SAHMs just cannot fathom that the rest of us are NOT jealous. Personally I’d rather gouge my eyes out than be a SAHM. I also don’t know a single FT working mum who hates having to do it. I work FT and I’m not stressed, frazzled and looking like shit. I look a hell of a lot better than when I was on maternity leave and then PT with a baby and a toddler. And I’m happy - I absolutely and totally refuse to buy into the ‘mum guilt’ bollocks because propping up the patriarchy really isn’t my bag.

@mijas think this is aimed at me and my discussion with a pp. i mentioned that a lot of my male colleagues in my city job seemed to hold their non working wives in contempt and that it concerned me that the longer the disparity in experience went on, the more unequal the relationship seemed to be. Of course that doesn’t apply to all men in the city but certainly to a few whose attitudes I found quite jarring.

My “brain” didn’t “need to develop” any particular narrative. They would say awful things about their wives in front of me and have trysts with other women in the office (not me - I like to keep work separate and found them ghastly anyway). I don’t know or even care about their relationship but certainly it didn’t appear to be great- even if it was bravado from their dh, it was pretty horrible.

it seems to have made you a bit defensive. Of course no one knows the true feelings of my ex colleagues but the way they spoke about their wives was horrible (not all men who worked there of course).

I dunno, that Guardian letter seems like such a extreme example. How common is it really, for a wife to never share the financial burden, even before children? Every single SAHM I’ve ever met worked and was financially independent pre-children, and the majority went back to work at some point. Obviously it does happen like that occasionally, but it’s hardly representative.

Like I said before, I wish this conversation could be a bit more nuanced.

@Topgub - I didn’t mean you personally. I meant why doesn’t a couple play to their strengths. If a couple is symmetrical in skills then then splitting equally every job will play to their strengths. But some couples have different skills. DH is good at sewing and admin. I am good at night wakings and taking the kids on outings. When I have got fed up of waiting for DH, I have done some sewing (repair) - but it’s pretty rubbish and less functional.

‘I dunno, that Guardian letter seems like such a extreme example. How common is it really, for a wife to never share the financial burden, even before children?’

This is more common than you think. I know a couple where the wife won’t go back to work despite the fact her DH was recently made redundant. The expectation is he will need to find another job, she hasn’t even dusted off her CV to help. Prior to the redundancy, it was clear the job was wobbly and he was pretty stressed. Again no movement from her. There was never an agreement for her to be a long term SAHM in the first place. She had been working PT and after their second she quit work and never went back, that was circa 9 years ago. He’s a hands-on dad so it’s not like she had to quit as he wasn’t doing his fair share, she just didn’t like her admin role.

I know another woman who basically announced she was going to quit when pregnant with her first. Her DH had no say in the matter. He’s going from contract to contract to keep the family afloat. She complains about being a trailing spouse sometimes but she won’t work to ease the burden and make it easier for him to get a lower paid job in one place.

I worked until my dc were 10, 8 and 4 when I became a full time carer for my middle child.

I am available for appointments and school runs and spend a couple of hours a day on admin, medication and cleaning the middle child's room (he is Stig of the Dump).

Although I still 'work' I am dependent on DH's wage and have taken on more of his admin and house stuff to free him up to earn more in a demanding role.

I never thought this would be me, but I really love it. I have taught myself to sew and any free hour I get the school day is spent on a project.

I actually think I am good at what I do, whereas I was never sure of the value of my career, other than the money, which was nice.

I'm not a SAHM, I work 30 hrs a week in a intellectually stimulating job but I don't think that letter in thw Guardian is truly representative of 'most' men in the dynamic where they are the main earner. My references are anecdotal but personally of from what I have observed with friends/acquaintances there are certainly men that feel that want to be the main earner, they don't openly admit it but they want to be able to say look how hard I work and wantl to escape domesticity! My DH is only 40 but I know that he would hate being part time he simply cannot do it, he worries about money and providing. If I was the main earner I would earn more than him in about 2 years time as my skill set is in demand. Despite discussions, my awareness of the limitations of my job when done locally, we are still no closer to both part time. He fundamentally doesn't want that, he won't even admit it but he never pursues it as I know with his client dinners and Team building weekends in Europe, he knows it is pretty exciting not pedestrian or hum drum like my job. Two of his friends are the same, one is like the man writing the article in the Guardian and munchies relative is the same as described above- incredibly such but does not have contempt for his very clever SAH wife!

My husband equally 'parents' to me - despite working. His parenting is focused on enabling his kids to have the education they have; to give them opportunities they have; to pay for our home

Sad though that most SAHMs on this thread do not see all those tasks as 'parenting' if it's a woman doing them. Then it doesn't count.

Yep. I earn more than my DH, I therefore pay more out and still come home and do my fair share (not 50/50 because that’s completely unachievable consistently every single day, but we both so as much as we can and it all evens out in the end) and for some reason I don’t think anyone sees this as me ‘parenting’.

@PlasticineMeg what a bizarre over reaction. I hope you’re ok.

@Louise0701 you’ve lost me - what’s a bizarre over reaction?

Oh I see, you’re the poster who claimed we were all just jealous and hate our jobs and I said no we aren’t.

FYI - disagreeing with you is not the same as an overreaction. HTH. Unless you’re THAT confident that you’re objectively correct, it’s pretty arrogant to think someone is being OTT because they don’t share your opinion.

I haven’t seen those comments (I can’t see any comments on the article?) But the article stayed with me too because (as a staunch feminist) it was the first time I realised that patriarchy and traditional gender roles can be just as oppressive to men as it can to women. And I also realised if I was going to choose to be one of them in that scenario, it would be the woman, not the man. No question.

I see a lot of posters on here have said their DH is happy with the arrangement and I’m sure he is - after all, there are a lot of perks for him. But the stress of knowing that your performance at work is the only thing that keeps you, your wife and children from ruin must be intense.

My DH was placed at risk of redundancy shortly after Covid hit (he’s in an industry that was badly affected). We were fortunate that he wasn’t among those selected, but it was a stressful time. We’re also fortunate that we could just about live on my salary - frugally, with no savings, but we’d cover the mortgage, bills and food. I was on maternity leave at the time but I told him he didn’t need to worry, if he were made redundant I’d cut my mat leave short and head back to work immediately - he’d have time to find another job and everything would be fine. I won’t forget the look of relief on his face in a hurry.

@PlasticineMeg I think it’s incredibly OTT reaction to claim you’d rather gouge your eyes out than be at home with your children. If that makes me arrogant, I’ll take that.

And no, I don’t think all women hate their jobs. Nor did I say all women are jealous.

@PlasticineMeg if you had bothered to read my post currently, instead of viciously trying to defend your decision (as I predicted would happen) you would’ve noticed that I said “a lot of it is jealousy” and that “all the women I KNOW”
not once have I claimed all women hate their jobs or are jealous.
You are one of the ones I posted about who get ridiculously defensive though 😂

I think in the article he says she did work before children, just not in jobs that reflected her education and intelligence.

And I think it’s actually very common for long-term SAHMs to be either unable or unwilling to rejoin the workforce.

Have you ever heard of ‘tongue in cheek comment’. Or comments for comedy effect, because you know, it’s that kind of site and a little humour injected doesn’t hurt anyone.?

Of course you have - your obtuseness is a thinly veiled attempt to shame me or embarrass me, something, and TBH it’s a good job I don’t give two fucks, despite the head tilt ‘oh wow how extreme you don’t want to stay home with your children’ (I do love people who like to entirely repaint a situation).

I’d hate to be a SAHM, you like it, the end. It only one of us is claiming the other ‘side’ is jealous and hates having to work full time. I haven’t said “ooh SAHMs feel like this”. Because aside from the fact SAHMs are not a hive mind, I have no skin in this game, but clearly you do. I think sometimes when women own their choices, like working full time, and state they’re happy with their lives and don’t feel guilty, people feel very uncomfortable with that. Society likes women who beat themselves up, especially when it comes to parenting, and I won’t do it. Sorry not sorry.