Why are people on here so pressed about the existence of SAHMs?

[DaffodilsandCoffee]

It’s fair enough to point out the existence of certain downsides are risks, but there seems to be so much spite and resentment on here. Why are some posters do angry at the existence of women who prefer to do all the childcare themselves rather than outsource some of it? Also, are they equally as angry at SAHDs? (I know it’s not as common but I personally know 3)

@Villagewaspbyke

I totally agree on this point. I totally understand people's reasons to choose not to have a paid job but the idea that they need to "facilitate" their husband's glittering career is fairly insulting to those of us who don't have a helpmeet at home.

I've never had someone at home cleaning up after me, all the childcare I have is paid for and I struggle even to find a babysitter. I have to manage all my own financial planning and bills and do all home/school admin on top of having a day job and I've reached a senior position in my company and have a good career. If these men can't function at work without someone constantly mopping up after them you have to wonder how brilliant they are.

Its selling women dreams! It's your own business if you want to be a sahp or just have a job. However let's not sell the women dreams that we are facilitating a man because its funny how the facilitating only favours the man. I'm sorry but I cannot stand it.

The men function fine funnily enough before they met their wives... and after!

I totally agree on this point. I totally understand people's reasons to choose not to have a paid job but the idea that they need to "facilitate" their husband's glittering career is fairly insulting to those of us who don't have a helpmeet at home.

honestly I think it’s even worse than that, I very much doubt all these blokes have glittering careers, sone will but most of them will be just mr average, earning an average salary, and living in average homes, and a family with not a lot to spare cash wise,

I guess however saying I gave up to facilitate my husbands rather mediocre career, and we just get by, sounds a bit like a fail.

saying I didn’t like working so gave up because it was the better option for me personally, then fair play and respect for owning it.

Saying I gave up so mr average could continue to be mr average and I don’t earn anything and wash his pants, is not something you could argue anyone should envy.

TBH "facilitating [their] career" is really only a phrase I've seen on MN where the worth of the SAHM is being talked up. In real life, the only people I know who are SAHMs have chosen to do this, and couples make joint decisions about who works when, including paying for childcare and changing jobs/working hours to enable this.

Actually I've generally only seen "facilitating careers" used where the husband is a controlling bully and/or unappreciative of the SAHM role, i.e. cases where the issue isn't really anything to do with the SAHP.

Well I hated being in work, and honestly find that most people do?
I like having free time around the work I do. I like caring for my home and I like supporting my husband's career ambitions.

I have time to do things I enjoy such as write and read around things and I don't feel stressed about having to turn up to an office. I also expand my work prospects as I have more time, and I can home educate my child.

Do you ever think there could be a tiny bit of jealousy?

I think if you have a few children though it would totally tip the balance and become very difficult and draining. Also hating work is hardly a brag but if people do hate work and want to be home but don't because of status anxiety then that's really sad.

If people enjoy working and do important jobs for society I take my hat off to them.

Well I hated being in work, and honestly find that most people do?
I like having free time around the work I do. I like caring for my home and I like supporting my husband's career ambitions.

Doesn't he hate being in work, then?

@clairemaddox

Do you ever think there could be a tiny bit of jealousy?

Nope. Not one tiny bit.

Loss of financial independence/dependence on a man is my single biggest fear. I would do literally anything to avoid this.

Yes I know there are many marriages where the woman doesn’t work but where money is shared and the man treats the woman with respect etc etc. But for me it would just be gamble I wouldn’t be comfortable with. I couldn’t feel envious of anyone living in such a precarious situation and with such little agency.

It does facilitate the wage earner though. When you have kids, your performance may deteriorate because u have more stuff to do . Having 1 person doing that extra work due to kids (or home duties) can mean you perform your job better than otherwise.

the person could also be supportive grandparents, siblings etc.

doesn’t matter whether the wage earner is low, medium or high earning - they are facilitated (able to dedicate more time and energy to their job) due to someone else. kinda like some kids are lucky and facilitated in their studies by good school, supportive parents, tuition. It’s possible to succeed without these - but a lot harder.

@Namenic

This may be true at the margin but it’s a specious argument as a pp has pointed out because a) it’s not necessary and b) it’s usually not the primary reason a woman has given up her career. It’s a post hoc justification.

Its also quite unhelpful for working women: it perpetuates a culture where people who don’t have a helpmeet are disadvantaged because they can’t drop everything to go and play golf etc.

I would much rather live in a culture where both men and women worked outside the home to some degree but both played an active role in the home and raising children than feel I exist purely to make it easy for my OH to spend as much time out of the home as possible. It’s not a great backdrop to a marriage or a family.

Yes I acknowledge it has fringe benefits (for the man) and I can see why some people do it. But as a philosophical justification for traditional marriage roles I think it’s slightly dishonest and rather backwards.

Well I was only referring to those who OP said she saw being rude about it and I assume that's not you.

I definitely see where you're coming from but the flipside is that I am not financially independent because I am married and a member of a family. So I don't need to be.

I get what you are saying for sure, and you know what I think the real problem is? That we don't inform our children of just how important it is to be and to find a good and decent person who is on the same page.

I was with someone for a long time and I look back now and think why on earth did I do this? Now I'm very fortunate to have found a wonderful person and we are in alignment, we both want this situation.

You certainly can't go into it and then turn around and go 'oh and by the way I'm not working' because then you will have resentment.

I can't disagree with you though because I do work and I have earning potential and if things did go tits up I would be able to provide so I don't really need to be dependent, I'm just choosing to be, and I wouldn't want to be rendered unemployable but that's just not possible because of all the work experience I have.

I suppose if you go into it without ever having done any work then that is more precarious yes.

@BitOutOfPractice that too!

Thw only way to know for sure is to conduct a statistical survey.

Even then the bias will be towards ‘anti-SAHM’ comments but we get so many threads with unmarried SAHM in bad situations. Those don’t count do they…

IRL nobody gives a hoot. Do what you please…

@Botoxbotox

I was a sahm, I know it ruined my career options but that was my choice. I didn't have kids to let strangers bring them up - true but also dd1 was obviously different from birth and was diagnosed autistic at 2.5, we tried to enroll her in preschool (overseas) and was refused. I couldn't use after school care or normal childminders either so i had to work only in school hours

@Thepeopleversuswork also agree with this.
i see more and more in my line of work … flexible working (both parents), PT, etc. This should be normalised rather than having ‘one’ person contribute everything.
I’d support more policy making that emphasises this rather than the traditional SAHM model.

Individual choices are a different matter but I believe equal sharing of parenting is the best under normal circumstances.

@clairemaddox

I mean clearly it’s important to choose someone you are fairly sure is honourable and committed to being fair and respectful.

But you can’t guarantee that. Bad men don’t come with a barcode which indicates they are going to run off with Jane from accounts or just spend every waking moment cycling and not do any housework. There’s no failsafe way to guard against this. Marriage gives you a certain degree of protection should your husband leave you or die but it’s not a golden ticket.

The only really reliable way to protect yourself is to make sure you are able to make enough money to support yourself if the worst happens.

Plenty of women choose to take a step back from work when they have small kids and that is totally understandable but staking everything on the gamble that you have found a good man is a fool’s game.

I definitely was jealous of my SAH friend when I was a single mum working ft with no help.

She is jealous of me now that I am counting down the months to retirement, with an excellent pension and financial stability, house paid, whilst she is finding herself needing to work ft in her early 50s to just about pay her bills.

She would still have a dream life if she was still married but he left for a younger model.

I do see a lot of the scorn doled out to SAHMs on here which other people in this thread claim is non existent, and I wonder if some of it is to do - sorry! - with Mumsnet's demographics. It's easier to feel that work is self-actualisation and you'd be lost without it if you have a stimulating, intellectually challenging yada yada career than if you have a low-paid and boring job. The other thing these threads always make me think is that it's all very well to say that you would find looking after kids all day a drag and you'd be going mad, but nobody ever wonders if the women who are paid frequently rubbish wages to look after other people's kids are also feeling bored, under-stimulated etc, or if they're just seen as being from a service class whose job it is to do all the messy boring stuff.

This! In spades full.

It's oft trotted out on here that a man only has the career he has because his wife has "sacrificed her career". I don't know of a single example of that being true of any couples in my social or family circles.

There are 2 SAHMs among my closest group of friends and both couldn't wait to give up work as soon as they could. It had absolutely nothing to do with facilitating a man.
It's great for them that they were able to get out of working - neither had much of a career as they'd always intended to be SAHMs - but I do worry that they're lining themselves up for big problems in future as neither DH is someone I'd want to be reliant upon.

Each to their own, though.

My household is one income (mine) and I’d love to move to a more equal division of labour both domestically and economically. It’s tricky though as if I dropped say 2 days and DH worked those days instead we’d be much much worse off. Also I do sometimes get annoyed that I can’t relax my career at all because the financial burden is all on me.

Lol surely not an important man! He wouldn’t hate his job. He has important career ambitions.

I actually agree that having someone at home does help you progress - I made my biggest career leap when my husband was on shared parental leave. But it's not a huge difference and certainly would never make up for my husband's entire salary or vice versa for mine.

I can't see that it often does except when someone with extremely high earning potential has married someone with extremely low earning potential which is something I don't see in real life though on here it seems more so

I agree. I would hate to be solely dependent on someone else for financial security. The relationship boards are littered with women who think they found a man who was “honourable” who ups and leaves.

It’s not just that though. I just wouldn’t want to live off someone else’s income long term. It would seem wrong to me. I wouldn’t like dds to do that either.

Jealous of supporting a man's career ambitions?

Fuck no.

@bumblefeline there are many skills involved in childcare, an awareness of safeguarding, GDPR, hygiene, strong time management, developmental stages, I could go on... It's just an underpaid and undervalued profession as it's seen as women's work.

Oh I agree it's very undervalued. They do such an important job.