Why are people on here so pressed about the existence of SAHMs?

[DaffodilsandCoffee]

It’s fair enough to point out the existence of certain downsides are risks, but there seems to be so much spite and resentment on here. Why are some posters do angry at the existence of women who prefer to do all the childcare themselves rather than outsource some of it? Also, are they equally as angry at SAHDs? (I know it’s not as common but I personally know 3)

I think your attitude to working versus staying at home is shaped hugely by your experience of childhood and how your own mother approached it.

Absolutely true in my case. My mum was a SAHM, but lost interest in her children once they got to about age 10 and didn't need so much hands on caring. By that time she'd spent so long out of the workforce and literally at home with children that she had zero self confidence or social skills and wasn't in a position to do anything else other than stay at home bored silly getting more and more angry at the world.

There was no way I was going to go down the same path, hence I've always worked - part time at first and then full time. I do realise that not all SAHMs turn out the way my mum did, but that was the example that I knew most about. I've subsequently seen many friends who were SAHMs left in dire straits when marriages broke down (or in one case where her DH sadly died) and I would never leave myself in a position where I was not able to be financially independent.

My mother, interestingly, still thinks that women should be SAHMs and is very sniffy about my job, whilst gushing over SIL (who is a SAHM with secondary school age children). She still thinks that boys should go out and get jobs though, so there is very much an element of generational sexism in here.

I didn't comment I just listened but since you want to spin that. Many many doctors and surgeons date each other don't you know? It's quite common. They too have kids to raise.

It's a woman's responsibility to facilitate her OWN career or JOB. I don't like this nonsense of a woman helping their husbands up the career ladder NO NO. Husbands are able to do that without a woman and when the shit hits the fan who is left holding the kids?

@Marynotsocontrary stay at home mums are doing the extras because they have the TIME. A working single parent can't be in 2 places at once. It's like wise.... you don't have the same pressure of rushing around worrying about childcare it's different by far.

@SinaraSmith, I'm in no way saying kids of mums who work 50 hours a week or those whose mum was sahm and now divorced are all doomed. Not at all. I fall in the first category and my kids are doing great. A friend of mine was in the other and her are also doing great.

I'm only pointing to those for whom it hasn't worked out as they planned and then complain that it's someone's else fault or that they are victims.

I dont believe this. I believe the majority of sahm and those working 50 hours do so because that was what they wanted to do. It might have suited their partner too, but it was still ultimately the choice they made because it was what they wanted.

I am a stay at home parent, due to lack of childcare and children with SEN. A close friend had a go at me a while about why didn't just get a job, seeing the anger and disgust in her eyes made me feel so sad 😞. Also comments mainly from men about my easy life!

Personally I am jealous of the ones who have senior school age children who need no looking after. I’d love that life! I like work but I like do my own thing better.

The assumption that women who don't do paid work are always financially reliant on their husbands isn't necessarily correct. Some of us have plenty of our own money put away.

@Wallaw I was thinking the same thing when someone commented that SAHM's are completely financially dependent on a man...not the ones I know. They had their children later (30's to 40's) and have assets of their own, savings, investments, etc. Some are from wealthy families and have inherited or there's family money available to them. In fact, I suspect some of them are wealthier than DH and I, who both work!

As you commented, people can't be lumped together in a category and assumed to all be the same.

My mum was a SAHM, but lost interest in her children once they got to about age 10 and didn't need so much hands on caring. By that time she'd spent so long out of the workforce and literally at home with children that she had zero self confidence or social skills and wasn't in a position to do anything else other than stay at home bored silly getting more and more angry at the world.

Yep, this is very much what my mother was like. Her loss of confidence and sense of self and her envy of women who she felt had something to talk about other than children was the overwhelming memory of my childhood. It made me I'm ashamed to say lose respect for her at the time.

Now I'm older and understand more about the world I understand that she was a victim of her time and circumstances and I have come to see that she had very little choice in the matter, and that she was a very good and effective FT parent. I also think SAHMs today are generally far more engaged and active and tend to be busier than they were 40 years ago because, well, feminism for a start. So I would no longer presume that a woman who wasn't working was trapped and bored. I think a lot of SAHMs have really good and valuable lives.

But that emotional template of inertia, lack of confidence and feeling trapped is indelibly stamped on me to be honest. I totally respect those women who make it work for them but it wouldn't be for me. So no, for the record, all working mothers are not jealous.

I was thinking the same thing when someone commented that SAHM's are completely financially dependent on a man...not the ones I know.

While this cohort of people are very well represented on here, they're a tiny proportion of SAHM in reality.

The vast, vast majority of SAHMs don't have portfolios of investments to fall back on.

I couldn't be a stay at home mum for my mental health. It would make me very depressed/anxious. If I won the lottery I'd have to work or volunteer part time- I wouldn't function well without structure activities during my week. It's just how I'm wired but not everyone is like me.

I am the same. I get incredibly anxious if I am bored and don’t have enough to do: I find this far more stressful than traditionally stressful activities such as demanding work and it would probably trigger mental illness in me.

But I recognise this isn’t either usual or healthy. And I don’t necessarily think staying at home means you are bored. Plenty of women who stay at home are very busy

But I didn't say anything at all about extras? I was speaking about the basic daily work in looking after small children that many SAHPs are engaged in and that working parents usually outsource. (To be clear, either option is fine imo.) My point was that some posters don't seem to acknowledge this additional work, I don't know why. (A small number of SAHPs also engage nannies and outside help, but this is really only a wealthy minority. I don't live in that world.)

I know there's a lot of stress and juggling involved if you've a full time job, as well as issues about taking time off if children are sick etc. For some, the juggling becomes unsustainable. My own DC were often unwell as small children with bad asthma, and missed weeks and months of their early education owing to illness. I was very glad to be a SAHM at the time!

@Thepeopleversuswork do you not find it incredibly sad that you’d be bored with a job?
you would have absolutely no other interests, passions, hobbies? Nothing?

@Thepeopleversuswork no not at all, I know a lot of people are perfectly happy at home all the time. I actually love staying at home in my downtime but only after I've been busy at work!

@Thepeopleversuswork oops that should’ve said *without a job

@Louise0701

No I don't find it incredibly sad. I get a lot of self-satisfaction from my job and I always have done.

Me enjoying my job doesn't preclude me from enjoying my child or my hobbies. I love time with my child and I have plenty of things I do for fun. If I didn't have to work for money I would no doubt do more of these things. And I acknowledge in my posts that plenty of people who don't work get an enormous amount of satisfaction outside of paid work.

But why do you think its "sad" to get a sense of self worth and motivation from your job? Would you ask this question of a man with a demanding job?

@Thepeopleversuswork I would find it very sad that any person, male or female would be bored without work yes. How do you not find it strange that you have literally nothing else in your life to keep you occupied?

I didn’t say it was sad to have self worth. I said it was sad to say you’d be bored without a job.

You said how is the surgeon facilatating the wife's career. I will say it again for me I want to keep my own independence and have my own salary weather that be a job or career.

The thing is people split up and often the woman holds the short straw and that is why my focus will always be on the woman. You can't be serious? You expect a surgeon to be in 2 places at once?? It's the woman that gets left holding the kids... the majority of the time!

Don't give me that ohhh the SAHM is facilating him to have his career bullshit because I managed to work... and it's a man worlds in many respects it's unfair yes but it is what it is.

Plus there was a thread on here that on a surgeons wage you get a certain "life" or are you happy to bypass the surgeons wage???

Surgeons do long hours and are on call for emergencies so on this front your suggestions are VVV wild. But finicially the WIFE would be facilitated fincially

I didn't say I would be bored without work. I said: I get anxious if I'm bored and don't have enough to do and that I would find being idle more stressful than having a traditionally stressful job. You seem to have confused me with another poster or to be extrapolating from what I've said that I'm work-obsessed.

I do get very stressed and anxious if I don't have enough to do. Nowhere have I said this has to be a job. In actual fact though, I'm a single mother so I have to have a job. It's therefore quite helpful to me that I enjoy my job and get fairly well paid for it. Don't tell me that I'm "sad" for seeking to enjoy something which is a financial necessity for me. If you're lucky enough not to have to do this at least have the decency to realise not everyone has the luxury of filling their life with hobbies.

I've seen this sort of logic applied elsewhere and I think its quite unpleasant. Someone says they get a sense of pride from their work and someone else jumps on to say they are "sad" because they enjoy their job. It's a nasty piece of rhetoric and I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't say that to a man.

@Louise0701

I do agree. I enjoy my job but I wouldn’t be bored without it. I could find plenty to do and there’s more to me than just my work identity.

@Wallaw I agree that everyone’s circumstances are different. I used to work in the city too though and a lot of the high earning “d”h of the sahms seem to hold them in quite a bit of contempt. It’s often a vulnerable position to be in asa dependent on such a man (I have my own money now but most women and sahm don’t). It’s easy to dismiss surgeons as being arrogant but I think a lot of these women find that when he gets tired of them or someone better comes along, it’s not all family money after all and there’s no him in that team.

also as I said earlier, perpetrating these stereotypes of women and men is harmful to women as a class. many highly paid jobs are very difficult to do with kids or family responsibilities and they continue to be done mainly by men who don’t spend any time on family responsibilities. This creates a vicious circle.

as a society we would benefit hugely from men taking a more active role with children and home while women take a more active part in the workplace. But I understand that each individual wants to make the decision that’s best for them.

@Norush4 I agree. I was a single mum in the city. Managed to keep my career without anyone “facilitating it”. The idea that some men are so important that they need a sahm to facilitate their career is sexist rubbish. Funnily enough the women in the same job will rarely have a sahp.

i know, just as the vast majority of people who work aren’t high earners!

My point is that there’s diversity in every “group” and it’s difficult to generalize. Higher earning Mum’s could be far less financially affected by a relationship breakdown than lower-earning Mum’s, for example. There’s no one size fits all.

Sorry, replied to the wrong person!