Why are people on here so pressed about the existence of SAHMs?

[DaffodilsandCoffee]

It’s fair enough to point out the existence of certain downsides are risks, but there seems to be so much spite and resentment on here. Why are some posters do angry at the existence of women who prefer to do all the childcare themselves rather than outsource some of it? Also, are they equally as angry at SAHDs? (I know it’s not as common but I personally know 3)

Well I hated being in work, and honestly find that most people do?
I like having free time around the work I do. I like caring for my home and I like supporting my husband's career ambitions.

oh god there are no words to answer this embarrassing and contradictory post

but to answer the question, am I jealous you’re financially dependant, bring in no money of your own, and get to do the housework so your husband can have a career, to the hell no 😂😂😂😂

@clairemaddox

If you really think most people hate work don’t you think it’s a tad unlikely that in a patriarchal society everything is set up so men get the raw end of the deal being captains of industry (while hating every minute) and women get the cushy stay at home gig?

Does you husband hate work?

I see what you’re saying and I agree to some extent. It’s not as much of a risk to give up a low paid job if you are married to a high earner.

re the surgeon though (and in my case the city types) I don’t think I am saying it’s all down to the wife at all. Rather I am saying that ime many of such men come to hold the sahm in contempt. I think it’s partly because if you work those crazy hours and are so committed to a particular stressful and responsible job, you don’t tend to value childcare and home making and in fact you can become resentful and see the spouse as unequal to you. Tbh a lot of sahm don’t think of themselves as equals in these scenarios too with the talk “supporting their dh career ambitions” etc. i think it’s problematic as a dynamic in a relationship.

I think it’s one thing to take a few years off with young kids but I definitely wouldn’t be keen on working a busy, stressful job while my partner didn’t work long term. I actually don’t think men are all that different. But I think that’s relevant to a particular scenario of well paid partner and sahp rather than everyone.

Anyone who is not a SAHM but who is commenting on here is, by their very presence, "pressed by SAHMs" - otherwise they wouldn't have clicked on the thread! They would have just scrolled on by, surely. Plenty of other topics!

So, if there was a thread asking "Why are people pressed about WOHMs," I would have literally zero to contribute to that because I literally couldn't care less. Nothing to say whatsoever on that. As if women who go to work are any kind of homogenous group anyway.

So if you are not a SAHM and are posting on here, it might be very useful for you to consider why you feel the need to post. What is winding you up? Why do you feel you need to pass comment at all? What does it say about you and your life?

@Thepeopleversuswork

1. loads of stuff is unnecessary but people consider it important. It is unnecessary to have a high paying job.
2. yes - as well as facilitating the Working partner there are usually other reasons. Some may be preference to not work, some may be believing it will benefit children (whether it does or not is subjective and dependent on situation). Some jobs are difficult to do with both parents working (eg military, oil rig). Due to more parents wishing for a more equal balance between partners, I do think it has made things like flexible working more common and widespread in different professions. This is positive. I think though that domestic duties and unpaid care for children at home and elderly is devalued. Unfortunately many of the jobs that sahm’s used to do in a previous generation but now is fairly commonly outsourced (cleaning, childcare, elderly care) is poorly paid and often done by women. Time to help kids with education can be beneficial - as @clairemaddox says - but this may not be the case for all kids - some of whom thrive better in daycare.

Because it can be an interesting discussion. And the thread is aimed at people who are not Sahms. It’s not aimed at sahms.

Are you ‘pressed’ by the thread of every subject you reply on?

So if you are not a SAHM and are posting on here, it might be very useful for you to consider why you feel the need to post. What is winding you up?

I don't know what pressed really means in this context but I’m very interested by the politics of domestic life. Also I have the big job and support a non working spouse so I do have a horse in the race so to speak. I actually probably shouldn’t comment but I honestly do find it quite hard to ignore people saying I must be jealous and bitter. Apparently I can’t resist reading it though not sure what that says about me maybe I’m a sadist!

Very good point Pucell everyone on Mumsnet seems to have a very senior, highly paid and mentally stimulating career ... I am sure that cannot be true for every woman?
And yes, what recognition are we giving to the women who are the childminders, cleaners, cooks etc supporting other women (and men) ... are their careers similarly rewarding and enabling them 'not to be bored senseless' by being a SAHM?

@mijas

Shouldn't you be asking yourself the same question?

And what's with all these bizarre, convoluted scenarios people are creating in their own heads - like 'men in the city generally come to despise their wives.' 😂Seriously, just listen to yourselves! What utter bollocks you're talking. The only relationship you are qualified to give the inside view on is your own. You know nothing - absolutely nothing whatsoever - about the dynamics in anyone else's relationship - regardless of what anyone may or may not do as a day job. Ridiculous.

And again, why has you brain needed to develop this particular narrative? Does it make you feel better about your own lives?

Are you seriously saying that in answer to the question, why are people on here pressed by stay at home moms only stay at home mums can answer? What would the point in that be ? What insight would it provide the op?

most people answering I assume are parents. And most of them women. As such we faced our own choices. And issues that effect women on the whole and this is a big one, as it affects how women are perceived in society are something you cannot silence us on.

Shame on you for trying.

I do find it bizarre when others claim that badmouthing SAHMs isn’t “a thing” on MN. It totally is. I’ve seen some shitty posts over the years; including a poster telling the mother of severely disabled child that she should be working during the 15 hours a week of respite care her family received, and that she was using her child as “an excuse” not to work. I’ve seen being a SAHM compared to being a prostitute. Once I was on a really fantastic supportive thread supporting SAHMs who wanted to return to work, giving advice and suggestions for retraining etc, and even then some posters couldn’t stop themselves from wading in to say how they would rather die than be a SAHM and be financially dependent and a drudge yadayadayada (and no, they did not go to offer constructive advice). Of course you get the occasional poster who criticises working mothers, and says clueless things about childcare (remember Beesimo and her “day orphanages”?) but they tend to get instantly jumped on and ripped to shreds.

I work full time now, and earn a decent wage, but that gives me fuck all right to judge what other women and families do. I’ll happily offer advice and support to women who want to return to work after being SAHP, but their reasons for becoming one in the first place are none of my business.

Lots of interesting perspectives here

As a ‘career woman’ I find it hard to compete with men who are supported by a SAH partner who takes care of everything at home. My husband also has a challenging career and we split home related activities between us.

Sometimes I do feel jealous of SAH parents and sometimes maybe I do feel resentful when blokes at work get promoted above me because they have a wife at home doing everything to support him. It doesn’t really help to rebalance things. Instead, it is a way that wealthy people stay ahead- if you are rich then you can afford a stay at home partner which makes if more difficult for those who are less wealthy to get ahead.

I'm on here because I am a SAHM and have been for 18 years.

In all those years, not once has anyone ever asked me when and if I will ever return to work. I genuinely can't ever recall anyone ever passing comment about my life in that way. It only happens on MN - which is quite fascinating really. It's like a parallel universe on here.

Not surprisingly, I know a lot of other SAHMs because I have had 4 children in various schools and I would say most women are on a similar financial situation and similar family set-up to us. Maybe I know 100 or so long- term SAHMs. Where I live it's very common and nobody bats an eyelid.

Even amongst ourselves (meaning my friends) we don't have endless conversations about 'to return to work or not.' It's a total non issue which is why it baffles me why anyone should care.

I know of only one divorce. She walked away with millions and is fine.

Husbands are generally very adjusted and reasonable individuals.

Plenty of those who 'work in the city.' (this is SW London).

Plenty of self-made multi-millionaires.

Quite a few husbands semi-retired in their 40s / early 50s,

All wives have at least a degree (most postgrad qualifications)

None if them became SAHMs to do housework and nor would the husbands have expected them to. Most families have 'help' (I don't though, except for a cleaner).

Husbands are very respectful and families are all pretty functional as far as I can tell.

The wives are quite motivated, active people generally and do all sorts of things. I couldn't even begin.

So that's the reality of long term SAHMs - from someone who lives the life and had fine for almost 2 decades.

I don't recognise what people say about weird power dynamics and women with hollow lives. It couldn't be further from the truth.

And yes, I have facilitated my husband. But it was worth it. Also, he has facilitated me to live the life of my choice. That's the whole point of a marriage - you facilitate each other!

@mijas
In your circle of stay at home parents, are any of them male?

In my experience it is mostly wealthy men with women at home. It is hard to compete with them as a less wealthy but equally skilled woman (see my post above).

Having said that I don’t resent women in your position. It just makes things more difficult for me!

wow you know a hundred stay at home mums most of whom are married to self made millionaires with home help? The women all have degrees but chose not to use them, and they are all married to good men, some of whom are so wealthy they retired on their forties and your angry little posts are just to tell people this is the reality of stay at home mums?

ok…

@Namenic

It is unnecessary to have a high-paying job

That's a subjective judgement. I'm a single parent and sole breadwinner and live in London. It it necessary, if I'm to continue to live where I am and where my daughter goes to school and where her friends and her biological father live, for me to have what by national standards is a high-paying job.

If I were to decide that it was more important for me to spend more time with her and downgrade my job, it would lead to a significant loss in earnings and would almost certainly force us both to relocate, with significant consequences for her education, her social wellbeing and possibly her mental health. Would that definitely be worthwhile for a few more hours in the home each week? I'm not so sure.

It's easy to say money is unnecessary if someone else is making the money for you. As a lone parent I find it annoying when people come on to say that money will never be more important than time with your children. That's a luxury not afforded to all of us.

@Rosebuud But some people really do know those types of SAHM’s! Those are the type I know as well, well-educated, monied, and giving back to their communities in many ways, e.g. two I know have raised millions to create a new city park.

As I said in a previous post, you can’t lump people into one group.

I’ve seen some shitty posts over the years; including a poster telling the mother of severely disabled child that she should be working during the 15 hours a week of respite care her family received, and that she was using her child as “an excuse” not to work.

That is a seriously disgusting thing to say. That said, the non-working parent of a severely disabled child is not really a SAHM in the way the phrase is used on this thread - they’re a carer. The two shouldn’t be conflated because the parents of disabled children often have limited or no choice but to give up work (there was a thread on here last week started by the mother of a disabled child saying how much she wished she could work). And they should be supported appropriately by the state - parents of disabled children don’t get nearly enough financial or practical support or recognition IMO.

@mijas - I think some of the reason why I find this subject interesting is that I have the total opposite experience. I have no SAHM friends - have met a few at playgroups etc but don't know any well. In my social circle, it is just assumed as obvious that both men and women work. "How long are you taking for mat leave?" is a totally normal question because none of us would ever even consider giving up work. (SW London too fwiw)

So to see it described on here as a normal thing especially with school age children is quite strange. I just can't really understand it so I am drawn to these threads a bit.

I can only think of one SAHD, WarmWinterSun.

I can totally see your point about 'facilitated men' in the sense that they probably don't have to leave work at a certain time due to children. Probably they don't have to think about that kind of thing at all as their wives are across it. I do see that, yes, and I can understand your frustration there. But the thing is, you will always find someone who, in the surface if things, appears to have it 'easier' than you. For instance, one woman in a workplace may only has one child and thinks it's all to much, while the woman sitting next to her is juggling 4. Maybe another woman has no kids - is she privileged? Some people have kids with SEN . There are so many scenarios people have to navigate in terms of the home sphere. Whether they have a wife at home, or a nanny or whatever is only one part of the equation. In any case, there's not much you can do about the way other couples organise themselves, so no point making this into a point of comparison really.

This is interesting in light of the many, many posts on this thread that state that being a SAHM in no way benefits their spouses career, and those who claim it does are deluded and just trying to justify their choices.

Not denying your experiences by the way, but the contrasting arguments (both against SAHPs though) caught my attention.

"So to see it described on here as a normal thing especially with school age children is quite strange. I just can't really understand it so I am drawn to these threads a bit."

Yes I can totally understand that, ClassicBlunder and thanks for explaining. I am obviously aware that my social circle probably isn't 'normal' on a national level. But, if we're talking about women who SAH well beyond the pre-school years and into the teens - well, this is it and the set up I describe is the norm for that demographic.

@AmeliaEarhart

I don't think anyone is saying that having a non working spouse has no benefit to the husband's career: it clearly does, as posts like this demonstrate, and I have first hand experience of how this benefits less able men at women's expense.

I think some of us are questioning whether that's a net positive, either for the family or for society. I would argue that it isn't: it doesn't really benefit the family to have this massive financial imbalance and to have such entrenched gender roles and it it doesn't benefit society more widely because it holds working women back from achieving parity with men.

As a single woman who has worked and supported her child and got to a fairly high career position without any help whatsoever, it also makes me feel mildly contemptuous of the men who can't do it without domestic helpers.

"wow you know a hundred stay at home mums most of whom are married to self made millionaires with home help? The women all have degrees but chose not to use them, and they are all married to good men, some of whom are so wealthy they retired on their forties'

Yes, basically.