To be annoyed that Jude's ice cream have gone mostly vegan and are no longer gluten free?

[successstories]

Royally pissed off. And shouldn't labelling be better regulated to ensure only products made with real milk and cream (aka dairy) are called 'ice cream'? Oat paste should be marketed as something else.

Being the '1st carbon negative ice cream company' will not make any difference if the product is no good or cannot be eaten due to allergens🙄

Who's advising these companies?

I wonder how many people know all the hoops you have to jump through to call something gluten free. It goes substantially beyond just not containing gluten - we're talking lab analysis and regular swabbing of surfaces. It's too much and too expensive for small businesses (though I strongly suspect many cafés and suchlike aren't sticking to the testing required).

The allowable level of cross contamination is 20ppm which is equivalent to a pin prick on a sheet of A5 paper. There's hell to pay if you get it wrong. Unless you're specifically targeting the gluten-free market, or are a huge business and the costs are relatively insignificant, I totally get why businesses label things as may contain gluten (or nuts, or milk) just to cover their arses.

Ah, see, I would indeed dream of calling them out on it. Choices and necessity are not in the same camp. When I have been out with people who made a song and dance about needing gluten free or vegan food in a restaurant but then went and got a cheeseburger from McDonald's or a kebab from a van "as a treat" I absolutely have called them out on it. On the basis that you can't dress up a choice like a medical need (GF) and you can't be so principled and so offended that others still eat animal products only when you feel like it (Ve).

I have no problem with vegan foods, I have to eat a lot of them so that my medical conditions aren't exacerbated. I have a problem with foods that meet a medical need being replaced by foods that cater to a choice. There's a market for both.

It's not a religion in the sense that no deity is involved, but if it helps you to understand how ethics vegans think and feel, that is probably the best comparison to use

Well, with due respect, I would not subscribe to a religion or ethical belief that results in dogs having treats available when out and about but human coeliacs going without. It doesn't sit right with me. And, whether you like it or not, this is the effect that these views have had on this particular company.

This is such a blatant attempt to be goady that I don't know how you expect any vegan to respond. You are not the only person with medical needs.

Can't say I've ever picked up the vegan version of something by mistake, they are usually clearly labelled

In the case of Jude's, you can only tell by a tiny green circle they've added saying it's plant based. The rest of the packaging has remained the same. It's very easy to get confused I would say

@sickofthisnonsense They don't all say 'May contain'. That's just totally inaccurate.

This is such a blatant attempt to be goady

I don't mean to be goady. I'm just trying to point out the real impact that these trends (or philosophies, by well meaning individuals in many cases) can have in people's lives. There are tangible downsides too which some fail to see

I once did some market research and found that "bread (vegan)" vastly outsold "vegan bread". It was the exact same product, just the ordering of the words changed.

It's like omnivores stopped reading the moment they read the word vegan. I imagine this is why Jude's have changed their packaging.

If you are reading the packaging closely enough to check for allergens then I'm sure you'll spot the word vegan during that process.

It's too much and too expensive for small businesses

They seemed to manage ok in the past

It's like omnivores stopped reading the moment they read the word vegan. I imagine this is why Jude's have changed their packaging

So hoping that customers will not realise then, nice

I'm not sure if the regulations changed and got tighter before I was in the industry, but certainly allergies are now taken more seriously and so businesses are less willing to take the risk.

No one wants to end up in a situation like Pret A Manger with Natasha Ednan-Laperouse (they had followed the law as it then stood, but had a shit storm of bad publicity) or worse Byron Burger and Owen Carey. Better to write "may contain" every allergen that ever enters your premises and lose a few sales than to inadvertently harm someone and be completely put through the ringer by the press and authorities as a result.

No, that's not the case. The information is still there and on the front of the packet - it's just that the customer goes "chocolate brownie ice cream, that sounds nice, oh it's vegan but I'll still have it" instead of "oh it's vegan... <stops reading>"

And, whether you like it or not, this is the effect that these views have had on this particular company.

Their statements are all to do with reacting to climate change. Using more plant-based ingredients are part of their commitment to cut their carbon emissions - due to the climate emergency - and as cows/dairy are the biggest factor for them they’re exploring reducing their reliance on this as part of their sustainable business model.

It’s not some fad to please vegans.
The vegan products are in fact really a (happily marketable) by-product of their Climate Emergency work.

It’s shit for coeliacs. You have my sympathy there.

It’s shit they haven’t communicated their changes and they really should and you should really point that out to them.

But saying their company commitment to reduce impact on worldwide global warming is “a fad” or “a trend” or “a stupid decision” is pretty shit too, imo.

So hoping that customers will not realise then, nice

With respect @successstories ALL food is vegan, you just also choose to eat non vegan food too. It's not a dirty word.

You don't have to call yourself a vegan to eat a carrot.

If ALL food is vegan how can you choose to eat non vegan food?

Of course all food is not vegan.

I don't want to eat fake dairy and I want it to be obvious what a product is. I wouldn't expect ice cream to not contain milk unless it was clearly labelled dairy free.

Yes @SoupDragon I worded it incorrectly. All food omnivores eat that isn't meat and dairy is vegan. Ie bread. So why so offended when it's labelled vegan. Would you not eat a vegan carrot labelled as such?

The vegan products are in fact really a (happily marketable) by-product of their Climate Emergency work

So now they are suddenly 'Climate Emergency workers' and what they actually make in their facilities is a 'by-product' of their activism? Really?

Are you trying to wind me up @NoSquirrels 😂

At a slight tangent, is anyone else annoyed by the ubiquity of "gluten-free oats" in free-from products nowadays? Personally I think it is based on a mistake, given the number of coeliacs I've encountered who can't tolerate oats; my mother and sister have tried and can't (my mother only found out when we told her about biscuits often having oat flour now, that explained a number of bad reactions she'd not understood why she'd had). I don't dare try them myself as my reaction takes weeks to get over.

I'm coeliac and honestly just not bothered. Given that a trace amount of gluten causes me an issue I'm in the habit of a cursory check of the packet before I eat anyway, and consider it on me to do so. Food production is a business and sadly always will lean towards whatever is most profitable for it and it is easy to see that keeping a production line GF is significantly more costly and involved.

Whilst it is objectively unfair that we have the illness and can't therefore eat when and where we please, it is symptomatic of a larger issue where our society and government isn't interested to advantage the disabled or chronically unwell across the board, nor do healthy people often care or advocate for the issue as it doesn't impact them and they aren't willing or able to empathise with the impact these things have or how difficult life is made by them.

Judges ice cream is hardly the catalyst of that. They can do what they like with their recipe and brand.

At a slight tangent, is anyone else annoyed by the ubiquity of "gluten-free oats" in free-from products nowadays?

I agree, this should be reported to Coeliac UK.

Please explain how vegans are responsible for the ice cream no longer being gluten free when they have been selling vegan ice cream for 2 1/2 years.

And that helps the planet.... How?

Some companies want to do more than just sell stuff.

Not at all!

I’m trying to say that how they run their business is based on what they think their own priorities are. They’ve identified the climate emergency as a core value.

You think their core value should be keeping their products gluten-free.

You’re assuming they’ve changed to be ‘trendy’ somehow. I disagree with this part of your reasoning.

I think you’re right to be cross a product you’d enjoyed is now off the menu for you with no clear announcement from the company.