AIBU to wonder why so many people assume Johnny Depp is the good guy and Amber Heard is the villain? ..

[Cowslip4567]

People (from what I am reading in a variety of places on the internet) seem to have decided this even before the trial has been concluded. Presumably, we won't know all of the evidence until the trial ends.

The previous trial in the UK concluded that there was indeed evidence that JD was indeed a wife beater. How come everyone feels that they are sure previous trial had the wrong verdict?

But studies have also found that men are much less likely to report DV, so the gap is likely much smaller than we think, albeit still probably with women coming off worse.

When studies ask women if they've ever hit their partner, the figures are always higher than when they ask the men if they've ever been abused.

Anyway. As fun as this "women do it too" derail is, it's a bit off topic.
I can't see how the judge would rule Depp has been defamed. And he's behaving very weirdly. It's all most odd

"What figures would those be that state more men suffer from DV at the hands of women than women do of men?"

I wouldn't know. That isn't what I said.

I'm guessing there isn't much data on unreported abuse due to the very fact it's not being reported ! 🙄 ?

Given that women also don’t report abuse, it’s kind of a given that men’s under-reporting isn’t nearly enough to change the data

Actually you did - you told someone who said “Women experience DV from men at a much higher rate than men do from women” that ‘that's not what the figures show’: so which figures do you mean?

What about feminism ‘deserves to be criticised’, exactly?

Why is this case about feminism ?

@TeithHertz this I agree with. Men should be reporting more, for their own safety and also to ensure abusive women are recognised.

I think if there is anything "good" to come of this absolute horror show of a case, is that more men will now feel able to speak up about abuse. Especially psychological abuse and emotional abuse they receive. All abuse is wrong.

It’s not about feminism, but it begs the question: why in a case of DV where a man and a woman have both behaved badly, is the man being seen as the downtrodden victim, despite violence, threats and mental torture, and the woman is being treated worse than genocidal dictators? Why is every single excuse under the sun being made for the man and everything exaggerated for the woman?

"Actually you did - you told someone who said “Women experience DV from men at a much higher rate than men do from women” that ‘that's not what the figures show’: so which figures do you mean?"

Because that isn't what the figures show. Most estimates suggest that men suffer something under half of all domestic violence. That isn't saying that they suffer more than women which is what you claimed I said.

"It’s not about feminism, but it begs the question: why in a case of DV where a man and a woman have both behaved badly, is the man being seen as the downtrodden victim, despite violence, threats and mental torture, and the woman is being treated worse than genocidal dictators? Why is every single excuse under the sun being made for the man and everything exaggerated for the woman?"

It's largely because the evidence against Heard is from her own mouth, admitting she hit him and mocking him and because she made herself to be a downtrodden victim which is anything but the case. The evidence against him is, in reality, much weaker and comes almost entirely from a woman who is obviously lying.

Because that isn't what the figures show.

what figures? That’s all I’m asking for?

And how many of those male victims are victims in gay relationships? Have you taken that into account.

Given that men - gay to straight - commit 84% of violent crimes and 98% of sexually violent crimes, I’d say a huge number of victims are still victims of male violence
source: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/938360/statistics-on-women-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2019.pdf

From what I can see they both behaved abusively. Nobody is saying Depp didn’t suffer, but the desperate attempts to re-dress his VERY obvious violence, abuse and bullying behaviour whilst making out the woman did so much worse (she didn’t) is the very problem some of us have.

What about feminism ‘deserves to be criticised’, exactly?"

Anything which downplays the problems men suffer or the bad things which women do.

In reality all feminists are against some form of feminism as it is divided on certain issues such as trans and sex work with opposing camps both telling the other they are 'doing feminism wrong' or not 'true feminists'.

In reality all feminists are against some form of feminism as it is divided on certain issues

You could substitute any political ideology, religious belief or philsophy for 'feminism' in that sentence and it would still be true. Perhaps a better question is "Why do you have such a specific bone to pick with feminism?"

That’s where you’re mistaken @misssatan - feminism is nothing to do with men. No feminist is trying to stop men getting support they do face - such as depression, homelessness, suicide and yes domestic abuse. Nobody. We are simply trying to say that a woman who has very clearly suffered abuse, is no less a victim because she gave back. We are saying that in a case of male vs female, it’s despicable that a violent toxic man is being praised for his bravery whilst his ex is being terrorised for only-slightly better behaviour. We are saying it’s not a competition. But it is NOTHING to do with holding down men.

The issue is that, men DO suffer what I listed above, but women, and feminists, are expected to be the ones to do something about it. Men won’t take the lead on helium other men in DV situations. Meanwhile women are expected to let men into their DV shelters, to pander to violent men, to accept the stance of ‘Women are just as bad’, when they aren’t at all, because of ONE woman on the it her side of the world. LOADS of male celebrities have been convicted of DV crimes and not one person said “Wow he’s really brought down the worth of men here and male victims”.

*helping not helium

"what figures? That’s all I’m asking for?"

www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence

"And how many of those male victims are victims in gay relationships? Have you taken that into account."

Yes. There's also quite a lot of violence in lesbian relationships.

"Given that men - gay to straight - commit 84% of violent crimes and 98% of sexually violent crimes, I’d say a huge number of victims are still victims of male violence"

Most violent crime is committed by men certainly and most victims of violence are other men. However, when it comes to domestic violence the figures are more even. A lot of women lash out violently against their partners and also against their children.

I also strongly suspect that what people struggle with WRT AH is that she’s not a typical female victim, taking the abuse and cowering in the corner like Little Mo or other badly portrayed DV characters. She gave it back, she wasn’t perfect and she wasn’t some stoic martyr who put up with it. As a society we understand now there isn’t a typical perpetrator/ we still can’t get our heads around that there isn’t a typical victim.

I would be concerned that from reading this thread that as they r men, they may not be believed or assumed they are abuser

@misssatan yoy realise that men commit violent crimes against children at a higher rate than women.

that article is 11 years old, do you have anything g more up to date? It also doesn’t state how many men are the victim of male violence.

you acknowledge that most victims of violence are men - and they suffer violence at the hands of other men. It’s an uncomfortable truth, but men are the problem.

Why would they think that? Who has said on this thread men can’t be victims or won’t be believed?

This thread has gone weird.
fwiw I think she felt insecure, loved him, couldn’t handle his need for space after a row as she needed to feel secure again, he was distracted by drink and drugs and it was a terrible match with aggression and violent behaviour. I don’t think he will win but who knows? If he loses it will be interesting to see where her counter claim ends up.

I'm really confused as to why this stuff matters particularly to this case. Or really any violent crime or abuse. What does this prove? That some men are awful humans ? What do u suggest anyone does because of this? It's a weird road to go down