AIBU to wonder why so many people assume Johnny Depp is the good guy and Amber Heard is the villain? ..

[Cowslip4567]

People (from what I am reading in a variety of places on the internet) seem to have decided this even before the trial has been concluded. Presumably, we won't know all of the evidence until the trial ends.

The previous trial in the UK concluded that there was indeed evidence that JD was indeed a wife beater. How come everyone feels that they are sure previous trial had the wrong verdict?

@Newrunner29 sometimes threads digress and I’m replying to a poster who is claiming feminists are out to stop men accessing services they need

U haven't stopped banging on about how awful woman are treated , like its important to this case. I truly belive that AH is lying about JD. It seems on here because he's a man must mean something, or else why would it even be mentioned. What incentive do men have to report DV against them if the natural thought to think about all the women who are abused. As I do belive JD and he didn't report it, she actually says in one of the secret recordings let the world u r a victim of domestic violence and see how belives u! I mean its clear there is people who don't believe him and they r on here. I'm not surprised he never declared it.

*who believes u ( I'm not quoting the exact words but it's something similar)

There has been a under tone on the fact she is a woman and johnny a man. Apologies for "banging on about it" comment.

Good point

It has indeed taken an interesting turn. This sometimes happens on MH when certain vociferous misogynists with a very recognisable writing style home in on particular threads, picking persistent immature quarrels and name-calling anyone not in thrall to the patriarchy, or who dares to utter a word of criticism against the behaviour of a man.

A further recognisable thing about this style is the picking of arguments with particular posters about things those posters never actually argued in the first place. I didn't recognize it at first, but it's become very apparent as the thread has progressed. I will not waste my energy in engaging.

Just goes to show that some of the most persistent misogynists are not necessarily male.

Just goes to show that some of the most persistent misogynists are not necessarily male.

absolutely! And it’s not ALWAYS internalised misogyny either

Agreed. And there are precedents. Whoever loses here, public opinion will side with the Powerful Hollywood Male. The bar for hideous behaviour rests a lot lower with men than it does women, particularly handsome, established actors. They will be gold-diggers or people who pushed them into that behaviour; no matter how grim their track record was looking beforehand.

My prediction is that Depp will lose this case but Heard will lose handsomely in the court of public opinion. It no longer matters who did what to who. And that was probably always the intended outcome.

However, when it comes to domestic violence the figures are more even.
I think you mean domestic abuse, including door slamming and other things you dismissed upthread.
In terms of violence there's no specific stats but most violent crime is committed by men, more men than women go to court over domestic violence and many more women than men are killed by their partners.
It's not logical to suggest that domestic violence is perpetrated equally by men and women given the evidence. But some people are very invested in believing women are equally violent to men and suffer from confirmation bias. Its unfortunate they can't be more open minded to what the actual data says

But there are levels of behaving badly, potentially JD abused drugs and alcohol , there isn't evidence of him abusing AD. If she is lying about him abusing her. That is massive. It's incrediblely damaging to him and his family and his carer. She could or possibly did ruin him. I'm not minimising the stress of being married to someone who uses drugs and alcohol I'm just saying there r levels. Who is treating her worse than a genocidele dictator? If she did make this up then she is scummy and needs to be held accountable. It's not about exaggerating , it's about evidence and perspective

I’m amazed anyone who’s seen the video can seriously say JD isn’t abusive.

if a woman came on MN and said “My husband was in a huge rage, he was slamming kitchen doors so hard the glass shattered, smashed wine glasses and scared the shit out of me. I tried to secretly film it but he caught me and threw the phone across the room.”. What would you say to her? Genuine question.

I'd hazard a guess they are both lying to some sort of degree, and both being honest to a certain degree.

Because as the old saying goes

There's hers, his and the truth...

My personal opinion is they both abused eachother to varying degrees. I cant tell you which one was worse because I'm not fully briefed with the evidence. I'd guess there wasn't a typical one was always the aggressor and one was the victim constant. I think it was a circle of toxic behaviour.

One did something that upset the other intentionally by DA or unintentionally or due to substance misuse or due to poor mental health or all of the above, the other retaliated (in some form, physical, emotional, psychological abuse, causing fear) and then they both went at it hammer and tong till it burnt out and settled down, and round and round they went.

It was horrific for all I'd imagine. And regardless of who hit who first, or how many times one hit the other under any circumstance it was still wrong.

I am inclined to believe that JD experienced his fair share of psychological and physical abuse by AH. I fully accept that, but I also accept that during these "disturbances" that AH may also have experienced physical and psychological abuse.

Till eventually, and credit here to JD, I think he was the one who said "enough is enough" this is wrong, this can't go on, and ended it.

Just goes to show that some of the most persistent misogynists are not necessarily male.

That's nonsense.

I'd hazard a guess they are both lying to some sort of degree, and both being honest to a certain degree.

I agree with this.

Let’s face it, neither of them are having their finest hour here. The difference is, one of them brought this case and was happy to lay bare their dirty laundry, and the other had to put up with that.

I watched the footage I didn't see AH scared, I seen her continuily try and engage with him and he didn't want to. And the doors didn't smash . I'm going to ask this but I'm honestly not being goody but do think it's a interesting question. Do u think or anyone who is classed as a feminist have unconscious bias when viewing a court case like this? If ur very aware of woman being main victims of abuse , does that give u an unconscious bias towards women and men in these situations?

Agree

If she is lying about him abusing her. That is massive. It's incrediblely damaging to him and his family and his carer

The truth's usually in the middle. Something that came out of the UK trial was that both had likely exaggerated the abuse they'd suffered at the hands of the other.

Libel cases hinge on the damage to reputation, which is why he's so adamant that the article written by Heard resulted in the loss of his career. If her legal team have anything about them, they'll go after him hard on that point. It sounds as though his career might have already been struggling if he was finding it difficult to obtain insurance. If his well-documented addiction hadn't already seen to that, isn't he being sued elsewhere for assaulting someone else on set? If so, he's a liability and it would be unlikely to do his professional reputation many favours.

That's why I think Carino came across in his deposition yesterday as extremely smart. He considered his responses very carefully, never using an unnecessary word but giving non-committal answers. Unless asked to elaborate most of his answers were a straight 'yes' or 'no'. On the subject of Depp's reputation he was not going to be drawn; none of the leading questions from Heard's team were able to penetrate his armour. They eventually gave up. That's a thing I've never seen before: a witness getting the better of a seasoned lawyer in avoiding a direct answer to a question.

He sounded more intelligent than Depp's and Heard's legal teams put together.

No one would be defending that behaviour from Rob the marketing manager

yet a Hollywood actor with a tortured soul is different

poor guy couldn’t help himself, or the times he has attacked those working on set or smashed up hotel room

poor likkle Johnny so deeply misunderstood

I did say 'some'.

Admittedly it's not on a par with calling a woman such delightful pleasantries as a 'cum-guzzling whore'.

Having heard and read some of what JD endured, to be honest I can't blame the man for bringing it. He was painted as the sole abuser, and I think it's pretty clear to all now that wasn't the case. AH has admitted to hitting him.

I think he knows he will loose, I think he knows his career is essentially over and he's lost everything, but I can't blame him for wanting people to know he also experienced abuse by AH, and she isn't as pure as the driven snow.

He's sinking the ship, and he's taking her with him, because to be fair why wouldn't you in his shoes. Why should she get to walk away without a mark against her name when it's so very clear there are plenty of marks to place there.

Was he really happy to or was he maybe pushed to because he felt he had no choice because he was being made out to be something he wasn't and he wanted everyone to see the lack of evidence

I believe that the claims of defendant AH, in light of the information the British court would not include, which IS admissible in the court in Virginia, are borderline laughable.
By "metoo-ing" herself she has injured women.
Johnny Depp has done the opposite of that.
I have watched all of the days in court (I do that, anyway- lots of cases, it's fine - we all have our hobbies)
She's the one that has history of beating people

I blame him entirely. He brought the whole sorry mess to the public’s attention. A washed up old sleaze trying to reclaim his glory days.

He's sinking the ship, and he's taking her with him, because to be fair why wouldn't you in his shoes. Why should she get to walk away without a mark against her name when it's so very clear there are plenty of marks to place there.
That's the sort of logic family annihilator would use. Very vengeful.
Many people have been in abusive relationships and not "sunk the ship" because it gains nothing and loses them a lot.
The person who "sinks the ship" because they can't stand the thought of someone else "getting away with it", even though it also harms them is not behaving rationally and likely to be abusive, as they always have to win.

Possibly - but in this case, abuse happened on both sides, it’s clear to see so that doesn’t apply here.

if your husband behaved like him in that video, what words would you say to him?

my dad was an alcoholic, and watching that video made my blood run cold. It brought back the memories of fearing how far they’d go, if it was a bad mood or a violent mood, and one thing you DON’T do in those situations is get arsey. I recognise the tone in her voice of tip-toeing around him, trying desperately to de-escalate before things get broken or fists start flying. I hate to say it, but I speak from vast experience, that alcoholics are completely awful people to live with. They’re selfish, and cruel, and they never let you stand in the way of them having a drink. It doesn’t matter what you say - if you stand up for yourself or if you pander like hell - they treat you like shit. It’s a constant cycle of ingratitude and misery and taking two steps forward and 3 steps back. Nothing you can do changes them. My poor dad died as a result of his alcoholism, and as much as it pains me to say, he really was unpleasant until his last breath. I’m hope that JD, and anyone suffering with alcoholism can find their road to recovery because it’s a horrific disease. But I do not believe for a nanosecond that he was always pleasant to his wife and never abusive. It’s impossible - not his fault, or hers, but in terms of this case I can guarantee he wasn’t the angel everyone hopes he is. Alcoholics are not bad people but they do and say bad things to the people they love. Hollywood actors are no exception.