AIBU to wonder why so many people assume Johnny Depp is the good guy and Amber Heard is the villain? ..

[Cowslip4567]

People (from what I am reading in a variety of places on the internet) seem to have decided this even before the trial has been concluded. Presumably, we won't know all of the evidence until the trial ends.

The previous trial in the UK concluded that there was indeed evidence that JD was indeed a wife beater. How come everyone feels that they are sure previous trial had the wrong verdict?

"Not a single person here nor any feminist is arguing that. You are tilting at windmills."

No feminist is explicitly arguing that but that certainly is their underlying bias. Let's not forget the feminist movement ex-communicated the woman who started the first women's shelter for suggesting most domestic violence is mutual. The woman who first wrote extensively about female paedophiles met a similar reception.

"Now I'm again not saying that men do not suffer physical, emotional and psychological abuse at the hands of some women. It's just that statistically the number is less. That's all."

Except that's not what the figures show and we have to contend with under-reporting by men who feel ashamed or think they will be viewed as the abuser.

Except that's not what the figures show and we have to contend with under-reporting by men who feel ashamed or think they will, as this thread has demonstrated, be viewed as the abuser.

Fixed it for you

Erin Pizzey isn't "excommunicated" because feminism isn't a church or even an organisation. It's a set of ideas. People are free to disagree with her!

Your claims about domestic violence are not based in fact. Your supposed statistics are biased and underreporting is a red herring.

Oh yes I remember the TV programmes about Erin Pizzey in the 1970s and the shock and horror. She was a hero and then yes she was suddenly demonised when she expressed her beliefs about mutual violence.

I'd say the impact of the original programmes and her campaign were akin to the reaction to Cathy Come Home and the public reaction to homelessness.

Seems a long time ago now.

"Men make up 40% of domestic abuse complainants, by number of individuals. Abuse is broader than violence and includes the kind of things you dismissed upthread as "a bit of door slamming"

There are other forms of abuse certainly. I am talking about physical abuse (the kind that Heard is certainly guilt of, including hitting and throwing things at someone) and slamming kitchen doors doesn't count. I don't think slamming doors in a temper ever counts as abuse of any kind (except to the doors).

"Women are by far the greatest victims by numbers of reports e.g. levels of repeat victimisation are higher.

Women are by far the greatest number of domestic violence victims."

Not what most studies show. We also have the problem of under-reporting which will affect both sexes but is likely to be more of an issue for men.

"And in terms of being killed by your partner, 80% of victims are female and 20% male. I don't know how many of those male victims were in same sex relationships."

That last part is probably true.

Yes this!!

Why is under reporting a red herring? Surely as the person above showed , I'm not surprised men don't report given the comments on this!

Yes the lawyers are always the winners.

"Erin Pizzey isn't "excommunicated" because feminism isn't a church or even an organisation. It's a set of ideas. People are free to disagree with her!"

You are being too literal. It is a turn of phrase and is close enough to the truth to be seen as accurate.

Although feminism overall doesn't really have any set of unifying beliefs beyond a vague notion of women's equality there certainly is a mainstream feminist movement which holds a lot of institutional power and can and do freeze people out, which is what happened to Pizzey.

"Your claims about domestic violence are not based in fact. Your supposed statistics are biased and underreporting is a red herring."

My claims are actually the claims of experts in the field and largely based on government statistics. Under-reporting of crimes such as domestic violence by men is no more of a red herring that the under-reporting of sexual assault by women.

I know, as a feminist, you don't want to believe there are lots of violent women and lots of male victims of female violence but that is the reality. This is the reason why feminism so often fails both women and men and why most people of both sexes reject the label despite a belief in sexual equality.

"I know, as a feminist, you don't want to believe there are lots of violent women and lots of male victims of female violence but that is the reality. This is the reason why feminism so often fails both women and men and why most people of both sexes reject the label despite a belief in sexual equality. "

I don't believe it because it is demonstrably not true. It's also used constantly as a method to block any attempts to address the issue of male violence, by trying to muddy the waters and make violence and abuse seem like a so called "genderless" issue.

"Yes the lawyers are always the winners."

Financially maybe, in the short term. However, I think Heard's lawyers are making such clowns of themselves with the objections to their own questions, the muffin stuff and the 'mega-pint' that they can only be damaging their professional reputations even if they win.

"I don't believe it because it is demonstrably not true. It's also used constantly as a method to block any attempts to address the issue of male violence, by trying to muddy the waters and make violence and abuse seem like a so called "genderless" issue."

No, it is demonstrably true based on countless studies, crime figures and government statistics. It's hardly a matter of debate except among ignorant feminists.

Your argument about 'muddying the waters' is the same one used to attack Michelle Elliott when she wrote her book about female paedophiles in the 1990s. She got a lot of hate mail from feminists unable or unwilling to believe that women could do such things.

Well, the trial has taken a rather 'interesting' turn with the questioning of ACLU [shocked not shocked]

Small woman being violent versus big man being violent is not an equal match

I’m not really following it, seems to be lots of vehicles for donating and working out who gave what under what name etc.

What figures would those be that state more men suffer from DV at the hands of women than women do of men?

mobile.twitter.com/justiceforambe1/status/1353015910316068865

Just reading through this thread on twitter. Obviously it's only giving one side, but I do find it pretty convincing and it's laid out chronologically which I think gives a better picture.

Ok, then can you please present figures that show men are abused by women at a higher frequency than women by men.

Can you please produce figures that show the figures of unreported DA against men is higher than the figures of unreported DA against women.

Can you please produce figures where more men are killed by women in a DA situation, than women killed by men.

Can you please present figures that demonstrate that men suffer greater serious injury from physical attacks from women in a DA setting than women by men.

I fully accept that women can be abusive towards men, I fully accept that men do not report incidents of DA as frequently as women do. I fully accept that DA against any spouse regardless of sex is horrific and should stop. I support all victims of DA regardless of sex.

However if the figures are 49% DA victims are men and 51% DA victims are women. Statistically women suffer a higher percentage of DA, and that statement is factually correct.

Both as bad as each other

I'm guessing there isn't much data on unreported abuse due to the very fact it's not being reported ! 🙄 ?

Nah, there's always a figure/estimate.

See below

According to CSEW data for the year ending March 2018, only 18% of women who had experienced partner abuse in the last 12 months reported the abuse to the police.

@misssatan

Why are you so against feminism and trying to push lies?

I'll also add

There are no reliable prevalence data on domestic abuse but the Crime Survey of England and Wales (CSEW) offers the best data available. According to these data, for the year ending March 2020, an estimated 1.6 million women aged 16 to 74 years experienced domestic abuse in the last year (ONS, 2020).

So 1.6million women experienced DA and only 18% recorded this with the police. So 82% of women who experience abuse do not report it.

Based on CSEW estimation and figures.

So let's look at the male figures

The Office for National Statistics figures show every year that one in the three victims of domestic abuse are male equating to 757,000 men (1.561m women).

One in 6-7 men and one in 4 women will be a victim of domestic abuse in their lifetime.

Of domestic abuse crimes recorded by the police, 26% were committed against men. This equates to c155,000 offences per year.

So let's go on averages.

1 in 3 victims of DA (regardles of reported or unreported are male)

2 in 3 victims of DA (regardless of reported or unreported are female)

Conclusion : Women on the whole experience a higher frequency of abuse.

Now let's look at police statistics:

26% of all reported DV cases are against men, therefore 74% must be female victims.

Conclusion: Women reported higher frequency of DA than men. However, of we return to the above figure women are still estimated reported or not to experience a higher level of abuse.

Now let's look at the lifetime prediction:

1 in 6/7 men will experience DA. 1 in 4 women in their lifetime will experience DA.

Conclusion: Women over their lifetime are at a higher risk of experiencing DA than men.

So....where do we go now?

N.B all DA is wrong regardless of gender.