AIBU to wonder why so many people assume Johnny Depp is the good guy and Amber Heard is the villain? ..

[Cowslip4567]

People (from what I am reading in a variety of places on the internet) seem to have decided this even before the trial has been concluded. Presumably, we won't know all of the evidence until the trial ends.

The previous trial in the UK concluded that there was indeed evidence that JD was indeed a wife beater. How come everyone feels that they are sure previous trial had the wrong verdict?

I'm just really not sure why so many posters think this is some kind of a truth and justice commission to establish who was the more abusive, and what percentage of the abuse in the relationship can be ascribed to either.

I think people find it easier to position it in these terms than to face up to the fact that a star they fancied and admired is an addicted abusive arsehole - and very significantly responsible for the demise of his own career.

I heard a supposedly pro Jonny tape yesterday with AH apparently goading him. What I hear is her repeatedly saying how he threatens to end things then says he can’t live without her and she needs him to stop threatening it or actually end it. I don’t hear what everyone else hears and it’s very interesting if it’s true that Depps team are not releasing more than favourable snippets.
the psychologist’s coaching was clear , she was very unwilling to remember anything other than what she came to say.

I just see Aunt Lydia and the denouncing of Handmaids here.

It's possible that both versions are true at the same time; that both of them abused the other. It's also possible that one of them was more abused than the other. Both appear to be fairly noxious humans but the "team Depp" shit turns my stomach.

Both appear to be fairly noxious humans but the "team Depp" shit turns my stomach.

I know and it's getting worse. Team burnt out corpse fucker more like. No one is required to take sides in this shitshow of a relationship. What the hell is wrong with people?

This woman lovebombed him, took on his characteristics to gain his trust, ingratiated herself with him and pressured him into a fast marriage. Then once she had him, she began to belittle him verbally, isolated him from others and began to inflict ongoing emotional, mental and physical abuse on him which there's audio evidence of him begging her to stop doing. All the while telling him it was his own fault and demanding he add her to his will.

She subjected him to hours long tirades, called him names, gaslit him, burned him with cigarettes, pooed in his bed, secretly recorded him, threatened him, cut of his finger and repeatedly hit him. Whilst he seems to have mainly reacted by trying to run away / hide or verbally negotiate with her. She told him if he told anyone, no one would believe him.

After doing all that, she went public as a "victim" - in magazines, on podcasts, on TV, in a courtroom, even speaking to DV victims at events. All the while knowing she herself was an abuser. Not just to Johnny, but to a previous partner too. And just like she said, everyone believed her!

She stole her PA's rape story and pretended is was her own to gain sympathy. The woman is seriously disturbed, and most definitely a serious abuser who would probably be behind bars if she were a man.

The woman is seriously disturbed, and most definitely a serious abuser who would probably be behind bars if she were a man.

Well he could take her to a criminal court for abuse if he chose to.

He's not doing that though (even if the fan girls seem to think this is what's going on). He's putting all his efforts into suing her and The Sun for libel/defamation.

Here are some bits from his last day of testimony:

“I fucked up and cried in my bedroom, after I had dumped you, a fucking week prior, after you beat the shit out of me.” Amber is heard saying that Depp showed up at her house “wanting to say goodbye.” Depp initially denies that he wanted to say goodbye, but then says “I won’t do that again. I made a huge mistake.” He never denies having beaten Amber.

The rest of the recording is transcribed here:
ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/123236717.html

You'll read that Depp took a knife to a meet with Heard but wasnt going to use it.

And finally we get some context on one of those audio snippets Depp released:
A clip is played from the phone discussion between Heard & Depp discussing their divorce settlement, that was heavily edited and leaked in early 2020. In it, Amber is heard crying and says “I don’t know how to get my reputation back.” Depp suggests they write a letter saying that they want to take it out of the public eye, and the media has created “a hateful storm.” Heard says, “Every ounce of my credibility has been taken… and done so in a dishonest way.” Depp asks why Heard put “the abuse thing” out there. Heard says, “I did not! Your team forced me to, but going on the offense… I promise!.... I did not choose this.” Heard says that she did not call the cops, Depp says that iO (Tillet Wright) called the cops. Amber says that she did not call the cops, or give them any statement when they came. “I’ve been trying to protect you.” Depp says that Heard told iO to call the cops. She says “While it was happening? (Depp: Yes) I’m sorry, but the last time it got crazy between us, I really did think I was going to lose my life, and I thought that you would do it on accident.” Depp says “I lost a fucking finger man.” Heard says the infamous "You can please tell people that it was a fair fight, and see what the jury and judge thinks. Tell the world Johnny, tell them Johnny Depp, I Johnny Depp, a man, I'm a victim too of domestic violence. And I, you know, it's a fair fight. And see how many people believe or side with you.” (Starts at 5:33:30).

With context now added, the tone of this goes from goading and mocking him to something very different.

Remember this is all from Depp's final day of testimony and Amber has not yet presented her side or evidence.

"the "team Depp" shit turns my stomach"

And the team Amber on here does the same to me, particularly those making it some ridiculous feminist issue and talking about patriarchy and misogyny and making excuses her at every turn because she is a woman.

Fine if you think they were both abusive. I get that. But to pretend Heard wasn't abusive and a prime mover in the abuse is appalling. There's just too much evidence to honestly say she isn't an abuser.

I thought Dr. (?) Curry was very good until cross-examination. It was clear that having seen the contemporaneous reports from various therapists she couldn't remember anything if it was negative to her client.

Where I took her on face value on direct, I now need to see multitude of analysts come to the same conclusion on the test scores. The defence looks like they will attempt to show that an alternative interpretation of the cause of the test scores could be PTSD. Experts disagree all the time in diagnostic settings. Curry's disgnosis may leave legitimate room for that.

If her interpretations of the scores is the uncontroversial majority view in court/out of court, I would then accept the BPD and Histrionic diagnoses. But then we get into the distasteful area of can abusive mentally-unwell people ever be abused by others? Of course they can, and are.

The whole thing reminds me of the absolute contrarian, male-toadying BS a former flatmate used to triumphantly trot out while trying tobe cool-girl; that "men are MORE abused than women because they are less likely to report it". Disgusting.

Who knows who abused whom in the Depp/Heard case. Both? Neither? One of them?

Stop pretending you actually know, cool girls.

And the team Amber on here does the same to me

I haven't heard a single person use that phrase. Have you?

This is where I sit as well - I've said some awful stuff about my abuser while trying to start recovering from an abusive relationship, but I've never done anything to them because I'm not an abuser.

Things seem to boil down to "she physically injured him badly, punched him, abused him and then lied saying he'd done it to her too on the basis of no evidence while all her ex's say she was awful to them too. He sent a nasty text message and has taken drugs while all his exs say he was not abusive while he was with them".
This really doesn't sound 50/50 to me, it sounds like a pretty woman expecting to get away with awful abuse on the back of metoo and having a decent chance of succeeding.

If you took the genders and names out of this, I don't think anyone would be saying this is 50/50, they'd be saying "this is a classic case of a woman being abused by her violent ex" and would then be shocked to see the genders are reversed.

I think that's a pertinent point, as it happens. This is not the purpose of the civil courts. Punitive damages are for restitution for harm done, not for vengeance and not necessarily for justice, either. That's the remit of the criminal courts, in which the burden of proof is a great deal higher.

I think this case - as well as that silly Wagatha Christie one - illustrate that there are issues with this system in that the legal process can be coopted (but only by the rich) for the purposes of vengeance. And no justice - even criminal justice - is about achieving revenge as its ultimate endgame. Whoever did what during the course of that marriage, there is one party only pursing this in the courts, to the detriment of both and with the likely result of tanking both their careers.

What does emerge here is the awful stigma surrounding both addiction and personality disorders, both of which Depp and Heard are using against one another in court. Both likely have their roots in abuse endured early in life, and a combination of addiction and BPD/HPD in one household must have been an explosive combination. It's NOT, ever, an excuse for abuse, but it does show how hard it is to live with a partner struggling with these issues, or how hard it is to come to terms with them oneself.

At present I have a certain degree of sympathy as well as disdain for the pair of them. The way these people behave when their actions are subject to intense public scrutiny is really something else ('she shit in my bed' or 'my phone fell into the sea, m'lud!'). On what planet do such people live? But the commentary online does tend to show the extent to which addiction and mental illness are still stigmatised. If these two weren't glamorous Hollywood stars they'd be castigated.

From this evidence, it's impossible to see how Depp can prove the terms of his suit. I think at this stage he's lost sight of any objective outcome. The sole purpose is to trash her reputation and tank what's left of her career. If he can achieve that (likely), in his mind he'll have won.

What an awful way to live. Sad.

But to pretend Heard wasn't abusive and a prime mover in the abuse is appalling. There's just too much evidence to honestly say she isn't an abuser.

I haven't read any posts on here saying she isn't an abuser.
PP are just pointing that whether or not she is, is irrelevant to the case because it's not her behaviour that is on trial but her article where she claimed to be a victim of domestic abuse.
So the question is whether or not Johnny Depp abused her. He's already lost one trial in the UK on this question. This is why I think it's likely he'll lose.

I think pretty much everyone agrees that she has behaved abusively and has serious issues.

"I haven't heard a single person use that phrase. Have you?"

No-one on here has called themselves team Depp or Heard. Try to be less literal. It will help your general comprehension.

I think pretty much everyone agrees that she has behaved abusively and has serious issues.

Indeed. But she isn't the one drawing this out years after the demise of the relationship by chasing her ex through every legal suit she can. Responsibility for the continuation of that particularly destructive cycle rests with Depp.

Before his career nosedived, his addiction issues will have made it difficult for him to obtain insurance for work purposes. But he was such a darling of Hollywood, so revered by his legions of curiously committed fans and a system which naturally blames women even for their OWN abuse by others, much less for having actually committed that abuse themselves, that if he'd simply left this unedifying mud to dry, he could have brushed it off. They'd now both be happily separated, freed from their hideous co-dependency, and continuing with their careers.

If his career has suffered, he did this to himself. He alone chose to pursue it. This is the first law of simple cause + effect, and actions = consequences, most of us learn as children. Now two people are probably irreparably ruined - and all for what?

No-one on here has called themselves team Depp or Heard

Team Depp is widespread on social media. As I'm sure you're well aware. Try to engage in the actual debate and the points being made.

They should be locked away, they're both self obsessed abusers, neither are coming across well.
A tornado and a volcano in love.

"I haven't read any posts on here saying she isn't an abuser."

Then you've missed them. It's a long thread but they're definitely there. Plenty of people have also suggested she was fighting back, engaging in self defence, just a 'bad victim', the subject of entrenched misogyny, homophobia etc.

The excuses for her behaviour are many and frequent.

And her abuse isn't irrelevant to the case if she is the primary abuser and he was the 'bad victim'. It also shows she is (at best) selective with the truth and (at worst) an out and out liar which undermines her credibility. That is what both lawyers are trying to do to the other side to win.

Yeah I've seen loads of people say they were Team Depp on social media. Gross. They're both awful and neither is blameless, that's clear

But she isn't the one drawing this out years after the demise of the relationship by chasing her ex through every legal suit she can
Shes the one who keeps writing articles about being a victim of domestic abuse though - if he doesn't challenge that in court then he's as good as saying "its now a matter of record that this is true".

"Team Depp is widespread on social media. As I'm sure you're well aware. Try to engage in the actual debate and the points being made."

I am. It's you who are not.

No-one on this thread has called themselves team Depp or Heard. You suggested otherwise. What people do on other platforms is irrelevant to that strange claim you made.

There are three groups on here. Those who think they're both as bad as each other, those who think Depp was the principle or sole abuser and those who think Heard was. You could reasonably call the last two teams Depp and Heard if you wanted to and my criticism was of the latter who ignore or make excuses for her very well documented abuse.

She wrote one article in 2018 - which other articles are you thinking of?

No-one on this thread has called themselves team Depp or Heard. You suggested otherwise.

nope. I didn't. Christ, reading comprehension is really a challenge for you isn't it?

Team Depp is used widely on social (I never said it was used on here).

I've never heard anyone use Team Amber on any platform. Until you made a reference to it on here of course, but I have never see a single person label themselves Team Amber, whereas social is littered with people putting their hand up to be Team Johnny the burnt out corpse fucker.

Lots of people pursue cases for ages where they think they've been hard done by. Most of us don't have the money to do it though.

It doesn't really matter as she's a pretty young woman with a great PR team and it all helps her build her 'poor me' image and boost her career. He ought to give up as most people want to believe the pretty young lady and not the nasty brutish Depp

Difficult to believe them they both appear sincere but then they are both actors giving a performance.