AIBU to wonder why so many people assume Johnny Depp is the good guy and Amber Heard is the villain? ..

[Cowslip4567]

People (from what I am reading in a variety of places on the internet) seem to have decided this even before the trial has been concluded. Presumably, we won't know all of the evidence until the trial ends.

The previous trial in the UK concluded that there was indeed evidence that JD was indeed a wife beater. How come everyone feels that they are sure previous trial had the wrong verdict?

I feel more inclined to take the opinions of a judge more seriously than I do yours frankly. The judge has completed years of legal training and has reviewed all of the evidence. What qualifications do you have that entitle you to feel you know better!

Surely that means u must not trust jury cases because they have no training in law?

That's disgusting. I don't care at all about what she looks like or her "charms"

This case is about him.

A man who smashes things up in a rage, threatens his partner, and gets into a position where he can "accidentally" head butt her is abusive.
Whether or not his partner goaded him, hit him first or whatever doesn't change the fact a man like that is abusive.

Unless you think abuse against a partner can be justified in certain circumstances.

Why are some people so insistent that JD is some Saint and has done nothing wrong.

The man is high or drunk most of the time, people who are high and drunk don't tend to be the most pleasant, relaxed and welcoming of people 99% of the time. They have negative behaviour whilst intoxicated not limited to acts of aggression, violence and abuse.

There's a reason during big international match days where the drink is flowing that DV reports and in incidents rise dramatically.

Now you can say, yes but the abuse is a result of his substance misuse, but it's doesn't negate the abuse, it still happened. He still abused someone.

And as for AH, she's not coming across as a shy flower either.

They are either both as bad as eachother or other degrees, one not as bad as the other but both still bad toxic people 🤷🏻‍♀️

This case is about him.

Yes, it is, but whether people like it or not, attention is now also focused on AH and her behaviour, which is questionable to say the least.

This is what JD lawyer said in his summing up of the U.K. trial:

In written submissions to the Court of Appeal, Mr Depp’s barrister David Sherborne said Mr Justice Nicol “concluded that the appellant was guilty of serious physical assaults without taking account of or even acknowledging that Ms Heard had been untruthful in her evidence, without testing her account against the documentary evidence and the evidence of other witnesses, and without making any findings that he disbelieved those witnesses”.
Mr Sherborne added: “His uncritical acceptance of her account of events is manifestly unsafe.”

Depp’s lawyer, David Sherborne, told the court in his closing submissions: “From the big points to the small points, Ms Heard has proved herself to be a wholly unreliable witness and, frankly, a compulsive liar, and I don’t say that lightly.”

With this US trial can now judge for ourselves, with full disclosure of evidence, whether he was right or not.

I think those of us who suspected she had a personality disorder might be on the right lines.

I tg

That's a quote from the application to appeal the judgement of Judge Nichol, which was definitively not upheld. You can read the reasoning for why Depp was not allowed to appeal here
·
www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Depp-approved-for-hand-down.pdf

What you've quoted in bold is the opinion of Depp's lawyer, after losing the UK court case. Everything he says there is wrong, as per the detail in the judgement as to why Depp cannot make a further appeal. It is quite wrong to suggest that the judge just believed Heard without looking at any of the evidence. You can read the original justification for the findings in each of the 14 incidents considered. Evidence was considered from a range of sources in each case. Sometimes it was Depp's own evidence that led to the judge deciding against him.

Heard might have a personality disorder. Depp is proven to be a "wife beater" and has been shown in court to have a massive drink and drugs problem.

I think they've both done things wrong and are probably as bad as each other.

What I do find unjust is that Johnny Depp's career has been destroyed - Disney now refuse to work with him, made to resign from Fantastic Beasts - but Amber Heard still has her roles in things like Aquaman (which is also owed by Disney).

None of this has stopped me laughing at "a mega pint".

Court case 1 - depp lost
Appeal - depp wasn’t allowed to appeal because there was no grounds and the new evidence about the donation was irrelevant
Current court case - maybe third time lucky 😂

Exactly when the statement was made is neither here nor there, they were his comments on the case. I have read about the incidents twice now so I'm all clued up on that thanks.

It will be interesting with full disclosure of evidence and context when AH takes the stand, as it was with JD.

Im interested in mental health so I am finding the psychiatrist that is speaking now very interesting.

They both seem so toxic, maybe they brought out the worst in each other?

But he would say that wouldn’t he? He’d be a crap lawyer to side with Amber for all that money J paid him 😂 a lawyer summarising in favour of his client - who’d a thought it??

Because people exist who have met them, and all such people love him and dislike her. Also there are tapes of her being verbally abusive and admitting to hitting him all over YouTube. And now the evidence is being transmitted live so those who don't let the MSM do their thinking for them can watch and judge for themselves. Expert witness has just delivered a psych eval of her BPD.

But he would say that wouldn’t he? He’d be a crap lawyer to side with Amber for all that money J paid him 😂 a lawyer summarising in favour of his client - who’d a thought it??

Well yes naturally😁 but I thought this specific point was were interesting:

From the big points to the small points, Ms Heard has proved herself to be a wholly unreliable witness and, frankly, a compulsive liar, and I don’t say that lightly.”

We will see in the US trial if that comment has any merit.

There is a difference between behaving badly, being unlikeable, being a drunk etc. and being an abuser.

Abusers have patterns of control - they have done the same thing in previous relationships. Abusers seek to ingratiate themselves with their victim by a pattern of mental seduction and creating a sense of dependency. Abusers seek to isolate their victims, to bellittle them and Whitter away at their confidence, to deny them a voice, to force their own will upon another through fear, manipulation, obligation, guilt and blackmail.

Amber is an abuser.

JD might well be a bad husband or a drunk or he MIGHT have even engaged in some of the violence and bad behaviour but it's obvious to me he's not the abuser.

Yeah I’m just messing. I can’t get into conflict with you for a different point of view 😂 we can agree there are elements of her argument that are questionable.

Disney didn't fire him because of Heard's article because he was removed before it came out:

• Depp stated that the studio removed him from Pirates of the Caribbean 6 days after Heard’s article.


• However, the actor was then informed by Heard’s attorney during cross-examination that the Daily Mail had run an article in October 2018, two months before Amber Heard’s op-ed, which reported that Depp was apparently “out as Jack Sparrow.”


• 
  “I wasn’t aware of that, but it doesn’t surprise me,” Depp said in response. “Two years had gone by of constant worldwide talk about me being this wife beater. So I’m sure that Disney was trying to cut ties to be safe. The #MeToo movement was in full swing at that point.” (link)

What had actually transpired before he was fired was that he allegedly punched a crew member on set during filming of a movie while drunk and was facing legal trouble for it. We all now know he had a drink and drug problem and he was showing up in an unprofessional state on sets.

It also isn't Disney refusing to work with him; it's the other way around. Depp has said on the stand under oath that he refuses to work with Disney again.

As for Fantastic Beasts, he also wasn't fired after the Heard article. In fact he was only asked to resign after losing his UK lawsuit against The Sun. Had he not sued the tabloid - exposing plenty of egregious texts and sordid details in the process - and lost, he wouldn't have been asked to resign and his career would have likely recovered by the time it came out.

Depp still got paid his full salary for Fantastic Beasts despite resigning.

Always a victim. As with other things going on in his life right now, he simply cannot accept how his actions contributed to the situation he is now in and blames everyone else around him.

He's also suing and/or blaming his former lawyers, longtime managers, his brother, and his sister because he can't comprehend, with his extravagant spending often in excess of $2 million per month, where all the money's gone so it must be everyone else's fault.

Thank you for this informative post.

I just wanted to add that Mumsnet is bloody amazing.

I'm participating in conversations about this issue on various social media sites (thanks to stupid hyper fixation anxiety brain) but to date only this thread has been a calm, reasonable discussion from both sides where I have felt safe and comfortable. Both sides debate their thoughts intelligently.

Thank you to Mumsnet and all the ace Users in this thread.

But Depp does have that past. He love bombed an underage Winona Ryder and then had often public fights with her. He did the same with Juliette Lewis and he trashed a hotel room while screaming at Kate Moss who then ended the relationship. There were also stories he threw Kate down some stairs.

There was a period of time when Depp was cancelled.

It was his long relationship with Vanessa Paradis and settling down with kids that turned the tide for him because he came back with a bang as a character actor and had several hits.

But Johnny Depp absolutely does meet your criteria as an abuser and all way before Amber Heard ever met him.

But Depp does have that past. He love bombed an underage Winona Ryder and then had often public fights with her. He did the same with Juliette Lewis and he trashed a hotel room while screaming at Kate Moss who then ended the relationship. There were also stories he threw Kate down some stairs.

There was a period of time when Depp was cancelled.

It was his long relationship with Vanessa Paradis and settling down with kids that turned the tide for him because he came back with a bang as a character actor and had several hits.

But Johnny Depp absolutely does meet your criteria as an abuser and all way before Amber Heard ever met him.

Yes, it is, but whether people like it or not, attention is now also focused on AH and her behaviour, which is questionable to say the least

And there we have it ladies and gentlemen, the patriarchy in action. Because it’s FAR more offensive to be a ‘woman of questionable behaviour’ then to be a man who is a violent druggie and abuser.

A woman who goads her partner and hits him is also abusive.

I don't think abuse is OK for men or women although I have heard of cases where women have been acquitted after killing an abusive man so I guess legally it can be justified sometimes.

And there we have it ladies and gentlemen, the patriarchy in action. Because it’s FAR more offensive to be a ‘woman of questionable behaviour’ then to be a man who is a violent druggie and abuser.

What is offensive, and may I add dangerous, is to assume that before the trial is over and all evidence has been heard, is that a woman cannot be a 'violent druggie and abuser' because ........she is a woman.🤦‍♀️

But that's not what @PlasticineMeg said though is it. She's right in pointing out that although this is about whether or not JD was abusive, so much of the attention is focused on laying accusations at AHs door. Eg the ridiculous dog shit story.