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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to wonder why so many people assume Johnny Depp is the good guy and Amber Heard is the villain? ..

1000 replies

Cowslip4567 · 24/04/2022 20:04

People (from what I am reading in a variety of places on the internet) seem to have decided this even before the trial has been concluded. Presumably, we won't know all of the evidence until the trial ends.

The previous trial in the UK concluded that there was indeed evidence that JD was indeed a wife beater. How come everyone feels that they are sure previous trial had the wrong verdict?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
CheekyHobson · 26/04/2022 09:54

Spot on @ENoeuf . Normally it would be annoying when a post appears three times but in this instance I think it's worth repeating, and repeating again.

misssatan · 26/04/2022 09:55

She was the one who confessed to not being able to control her temper, of hitting him, of not being able to promise not to hit him again, of throwing things at him, of chasing him around the house to continue a fight.

He just slammed a few kitchen doors. The latter doesn't constitute a threat to anyone whereas the former are examples of actual physical abuse.

misssatan · 26/04/2022 10:04

She was the one who confessed to hitting him, of throwing things at him, of chasing him around the house when he wanted to escape her, said she couldn't promise not to hit him again, said she gets so angry she can't stop being violent and that she gets so mad sometimes she just 'loses it'.

All we know for certain is that he banged a few kitchen doors. The rest is just accusations from a proved liar.

It's also significant that Depp's exes have all been supportive of him whereas Heard is known to have hit her sister and was arrested for attacking her girlfriend.

misssatan · 26/04/2022 10:11

If Heard was some woman in your neighbourhood with her history and behaviour no one would be defending her and romanticising her drink and drug addictions and violence, although a few stupid guys wouldn't be able to resist her fading charms. But because she was pretty (once, now looking a lot less hot) and a woman that people of a feminist bent assume she's the injured party.

ENoeuf · 26/04/2022 10:19

@CheekyHobson sorry! Kept getting error messages. But I’m genuinely stunned at all the people taken in by his current performance and the poor Jonny crap.
@misssatan I feel like you keep minimising it The cupboard slamming was not nothing and just a bad mood. He says ‘you want to see crazy? And pours a pint of wine.

she seems like someone who has possibly bitten off more than she can chew, exaggerated, handled things badly, is a goady type but as the case is about whether he can be called abusive or not that’s what I’m interested in.
i agree with you she’s behaved poorly at times but we are interpreting it through the lens of our own experience. And mine is a DA survivor and I see more of me in AH and a lot of ex Dh in JD.

ancientgran · 26/04/2022 10:32

RonaldMcDonald · 26/04/2022 00:33

I think they basically all bought into the idea Depp was the charming and cheeky characters he played. They discount evidence of everything to the contrary.
His solicitor/advisor Waldeman is a well known manipulator of social media platforms - I believe that plays a huge part.
That plus massive misogynistic views held by women and men against survivors of abuse - what proof does she really have?…. types.
Heard also disliked as she is many years younger and very attractive - her star is still rising (despite Depp’s attempts to derail her) whilst Depp’s fades as drugs and alcohol catch up with his beauty and ability to carry out his roles.

There is a massive issue of dismissing violence against men as well. Might not be the case here, I haven't got a clue, but women abusing men is dismissed all the time, he's bigger, he's stronger, how could she hurt him? We are told to bring our boys up to never hit a woman but what if she's hitting him?

You are right that he is fading with the drugs and alcohol. He looks a mess and he sounds like he has done damage to his cognitive abilities, it happens.

From what I've read they have both behaved really badly, I think if I was the judge I'd award whoever "wins" a dollar not millions. I hope he can do that, I think it would demonstrate what a total waste of time this is. They would both benefit from therapy and I question the morals of the lawyers who are taking their money. I don't know how lawyers are regulated in America but the professional body could do with taking a look at them.

misssatan · 26/04/2022 10:33

If Heard was some woman in your neighbourhood with her history and behaviour no one would be defending her and romanticising her drink and drug addictions and violence, although a few stupid guys wouldn't be able to resist her fading charms. But because she was pretty (once, now looking a lot less hot) and a woman that people of a feminist bent assume she's the injured party.

misssatan · 26/04/2022 10:33

If Heard was some woman in your neighbourhood with her history and behaviour no one would be defending her and romanticising her drink and drug addictions and violence, although a few stupid guys wouldn't be able to resist her fading charms. But because she was pretty (once, now looking a lot less hot) and a woman that people of a feminist bent assume she's the injured party.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 26/04/2022 10:41

AdamRyan · 26/04/2022 07:31

I think the stuff overnight about him putting cigarettes out on her is awful.

Are the photos of the cigarette burns published? They are a hard thing to disguise

misssatan · 26/04/2022 11:14

If Heard was some woman in your neighbourhood with her history and behaviour no one would be defending her and romanticising her drink and drug addictions and violence, although a few stupid guys wouldn't be able to resist her fading charms. But because she was pretty (once, now looking a lot less hot) and a woman that people of a feminist bent assume she's the injured party.

misssatan · 26/04/2022 11:22

As someone who has slammed a door or two in my life and doesn't consider myself an abuser and who has also 'suffered' when other people slammed a door in my presence and didn't consider myself 'abused' by the experience I think you are making vastly too much of something very small, especially given the circumstances at the time. It's like the people who say 'words are violence'. Words are words and violence is violence. You can damage a door but you can't hurt it. It doesn't have feelings.

I agree with you that we are all filtering things through our experiences. Heard reminds me of my violent, narcissistic grandmother to a horrible degree. That's why I don't believe her story, independent of so many of her lies being exposed.

misssatan · 26/04/2022 11:29

Yes, I get the people who think they were mutually abusive. I can see that there is enough to doubt his word or actions and to think they are as bad as each other. I don't agree, but it makes sense and is a reasonable position to take.

What I don't get is those who make her out to be the only one abused (or at worst a 'bad victim') and that's it's all to do with 'misogyny'. The evidence of her appalling behaviour is overwhelming and refusing to acknowledge this shows a level of bias/prejudice which is astonishing.

IRLithappens · 26/04/2022 11:31

I think if the roles were reversed and there was audio of a man saying to a woman "I hit you, I didn't punch you, don't be a baby" or if you heard evidence of a woman trying to hide in the bathroom whilst a man told her to come out and fight - you'd not have the same sense of confusion.

I think this comes from the idea that we believe women can't hurt men in the same way - because - they are physically stronger. But if you know anything about abuse, you will know that Johnny Depp's injuries are invisible because the worst part of abuse is the part you can't see.

Abuse is a pattern of control. The abuser love bombs you, gains your trust and then begins to excerpt control in escalating ways and once they are done or if you try and leave they aim to destroy you. Physical violence is a tiny part of it. Although Johnny behaved badly at times, it's obvious he did not have the hallmarks of an abuser. He did not isolate her from people, he did not push for quick commitment, he did not love bomb her, he tried to run away from altercations.

I experienced a very similar situation with a male friend who went through a very similar pattern with a woman and have seen first-hand how it begins, how it sustains and what it does to a person.

A woman appeared in his life who presented herself as kind, funny, caring and deeply interested in him. She feigned liking all the same music, activities and a special connection and he took it at face value at a lonely time in his life. She told him sob stories of her past for sympathy and ingratiated herself. Johnny Depp describes an identical experience. As does almost every person who has been abused.

Within 6 months of embarking on a relationship with this woman, my friend has been completely isolated from others and was being hit, blackmailed, gaslit, manipulated, deprived of sleep, controlled and was living his life on a weekly basis trying to do her bidding to avoid an altercation. It happened slowly, escalating each month until it was terrifying. Like Amber, she said she loved him and would die without him. He was told it was his fault and if he was just do x,y,z then she would stop and they'd be happy. Again, typical abuser.

When he left she did everything she could to ruin his career and life, just like Amber did. She similarly painted herself as the victim and made him out to be crazy - which was easy to do after she has made him mentally ill. And now, years later, he has PTSD and still struggles to be the person he was before this woman abused him.

I hope Johnny helps people to understand coercive control, intimate relationship abuse is genderless and can be very hard to identify unless you know what you're looking for. Amber Heard is not a victim, she is a perpetrator.

GenerallyGreenerGrass · 26/04/2022 12:19

I have experienced the abuse of a man by his wife first hand.
My Father!
She had him so under her control, he had to drive to his business in the dark so that he couldn’t see any other person (woman) walking along and had to stay at his business till 9, after which he came home to a sandwich that he had to eat in the kitchen alone, while she sat watching tv.
She gave him a newspaper to read from which she’d cut out every photo with a woman in it.
She attacked him for no reason, hitting him round the head while he cowered in the corner, threw things at him and hit him with any object to hand, while my sister and I were sent to another room.
Of course, we could hear it all going on, with my Dad pleading and saying sorry for something he hadn’t done.
This was my childhood, she was also physically abusive with me, my Dad tried to help by taking me to work with him at weekends and in the school holidays but he couldn’t really.
My poor Dad used to shake as she made him get a bowl and wash her feet.
There’s more, I could write a book but I think you can get the ghist of it.
She had him so screwed up he mentally couldn’t leave her. He tried twice when my sister and I had left home but she said she’d kill herself and he returned.
My Dad was nearly 70 when she died and he told me that this was now the start of his life.
I stood at the side of her grave thinking, Ding, dong, the witch is dead….
Neighbours and everyone in the village thought my DM was wonderful, her lying outdoors persona fooling everyone, they thought me Dad was odd because he always looked at the floor and ignored them.
Bless him, such a lovely man.
By the way, my sister who used to freeze while all this was going on and was like a little mouse around my mother was not abused and after my Dm died, when I was relating some incidents to her, which I know she’d seen, she told me none of it was true and our Dm was funny and kind.

Aspiringmatriarch · 26/04/2022 12:29

I can absolutely see that her communication style would be difficult to handle. She doesn't let up and was compulsively following him from room to room. Borderline Personality Disorder (which I think has now been renamed but anyway) came up and I think, as a layperson with some experience of this type of individual, it does fit Amber quite well. Not excusing her 'goading' him but it sounds like she was terrified of being/feeling abandoned, which is very characteristic of BPD.

In one of the recorded conversations between them you can hear her saying things that show she's aware of this and trying to find ways to defuse those feelings. It sounds like an awful dynamic but I did get the sense that she was engaging in the therapy side of things quite genuinely.

None of which excuses any physical or emotional abuse on her part but I think it's important. They both had/ have enormous issues clearly.

Where I start to feel the abuse dynamic was more JD towards Heard is the messages where he freely admits to being absolutely out of his tree (something he was very slippery about when questioned in court), unleashing his 'monster', being a savage, he knows it can't go on etc etc. Sorry I can't call to mind direct quotes but there were quite a lot of similar ones and some where he was absolutely praising her to the sky for supporting him in rehab. I understand abuse victims may cover for their abusers but it went beyond that to the point where you'd start thinking about giving her a sainthood.

Also the level of aggression and contempt about her in texts to others, not wanting her to pursue her career (he says she's not 'keeping to her agreement'), his history of anger and violence which is well documented.

If it weren't for the fact that he's now dragged AH into two court cases I'd be more inclined to think it was just mutually toxic, but to me that shows rampant ego and vindictiveness.

whumpthereitis · 26/04/2022 12:52

Johnny Depp did more than bang a few cupboards (which, btw, he blamed on an emotional reaction to the death of his mother. In fact, she died after that video was taken). He’s a proven abuser. The fact that Amber Heard is abusive herself does not mean that Johnny Depp doesn’t also qualify for the label. His texts at the very least demonstrate violent ideation, and I don’t imagine those downplaying them would consider them with anything less than serious alarm if they ever found themselves on the receiving end. We’ve all been mad at a loved one before, but there’s a difference between venting and describing how you’d like to burn them and rape their corpse. If that’s normal to you, you’ve got fucking problems.

This is a man that boasted in an article about assaulting someone, then had the quote redacted because he realised the guy was suing him.

You can dislike Amber without having to make excuses for Johnny Depp.

misssatan · 26/04/2022 13:31

He's not a proven abuser. He hasn't admitted to it and there's no witnesses to his supposed abuse other than Amber. He's an alleged abuser and the allegation comes from a known liar and actual abuser who has admitted to her violence on tape, plus other people have seen her be abusive to her sister, ex girlfriend and ex assistant.

I agree that her being abusive doesn't rule and him being so but his texts and cupboard door slamming don't qualify as physical abuse nor do they tell us much about his personality, despite what you think. The texts were obvious sick jokes among friends about a woman who was abusing him at the time. They're not a serious declaration of intent. People laugh at all sorts of unpleasant things like dead baby jokes. Doesn't mean they intend any harm or are indifferent to the suffering of little children.

Not sure you can really rape a corpse. By that point the issue of consent is rather moot.

AryaStarkWolf · 26/04/2022 13:37

IRLithappens · 26/04/2022 11:31

I think if the roles were reversed and there was audio of a man saying to a woman "I hit you, I didn't punch you, don't be a baby" or if you heard evidence of a woman trying to hide in the bathroom whilst a man told her to come out and fight - you'd not have the same sense of confusion.

I think this comes from the idea that we believe women can't hurt men in the same way - because - they are physically stronger. But if you know anything about abuse, you will know that Johnny Depp's injuries are invisible because the worst part of abuse is the part you can't see.

Abuse is a pattern of control. The abuser love bombs you, gains your trust and then begins to excerpt control in escalating ways and once they are done or if you try and leave they aim to destroy you. Physical violence is a tiny part of it. Although Johnny behaved badly at times, it's obvious he did not have the hallmarks of an abuser. He did not isolate her from people, he did not push for quick commitment, he did not love bomb her, he tried to run away from altercations.

I experienced a very similar situation with a male friend who went through a very similar pattern with a woman and have seen first-hand how it begins, how it sustains and what it does to a person.

A woman appeared in his life who presented herself as kind, funny, caring and deeply interested in him. She feigned liking all the same music, activities and a special connection and he took it at face value at a lonely time in his life. She told him sob stories of her past for sympathy and ingratiated herself. Johnny Depp describes an identical experience. As does almost every person who has been abused.

Within 6 months of embarking on a relationship with this woman, my friend has been completely isolated from others and was being hit, blackmailed, gaslit, manipulated, deprived of sleep, controlled and was living his life on a weekly basis trying to do her bidding to avoid an altercation. It happened slowly, escalating each month until it was terrifying. Like Amber, she said she loved him and would die without him. He was told it was his fault and if he was just do x,y,z then she would stop and they'd be happy. Again, typical abuser.

When he left she did everything she could to ruin his career and life, just like Amber did. She similarly painted herself as the victim and made him out to be crazy - which was easy to do after she has made him mentally ill. And now, years later, he has PTSD and still struggles to be the person he was before this woman abused him.

I hope Johnny helps people to understand coercive control, intimate relationship abuse is genderless and can be very hard to identify unless you know what you're looking for. Amber Heard is not a victim, she is a perpetrator.

There is a video of him saying he head butted her though

twitter.com/stirgussa/status/1518378551124189185

Menora · 26/04/2022 13:38

My DP’s parents are a lot like JD and AH.

I have been through DV as a woman myself. I recognise parts of both of them in different way. Some relationships are horribly toxic

DP’s mum is very controlling. No one will cross her. FIL get put down by her and he does react in response sometimes. They have got into physical altercations before, started by her and him wanting to leave the scene. The last time it happened I believe she smacked him on the back with something and then tried to stop him leaving and he pushed her out of the way to open the door and she lay on the floor claiming he had injured her. DP knows it’s not right

Cowslip4567 · 26/04/2022 13:44

misssatan · 26/04/2022 13:31

He's not a proven abuser. He hasn't admitted to it and there's no witnesses to his supposed abuse other than Amber. He's an alleged abuser and the allegation comes from a known liar and actual abuser who has admitted to her violence on tape, plus other people have seen her be abusive to her sister, ex girlfriend and ex assistant.

I agree that her being abusive doesn't rule and him being so but his texts and cupboard door slamming don't qualify as physical abuse nor do they tell us much about his personality, despite what you think. The texts were obvious sick jokes among friends about a woman who was abusing him at the time. They're not a serious declaration of intent. People laugh at all sorts of unpleasant things like dead baby jokes. Doesn't mean they intend any harm or are indifferent to the suffering of little children.

Not sure you can really rape a corpse. By that point the issue of consent is rather moot.

Nonsense. The UK trial concluded that Johnny Depp was a wife beater. Therefore, as it currently stands, JD was proven to be an abuser in a court of law.

OP posts:
whumpthereitis · 26/04/2022 13:45

He is though. Whether he admitted to it or not is irrelevant (although actually, he did admit to head butting her), as it whether or not you accept to verdict of the UK libel trial. He is an abuser, it is a matter of legal record.

‘Although Johnny behaved badly at times…’ here we go, downplay, downplay, downplay. Amber Heard is a monster, Johnny Depp merely ‘behaved badly’. No, he behaved abusively at times.

I’m sorry that your friend was abused, but you cannot project his experience on that of Johnny Depp and Amber Heard. One is not related to the other.

What’s your excuse going to be if/when he loses this case? And the other assault case he’s got coming up with the location manager he assaulted? Same ones? Or do you plan on diversifying your portfolio?

misssatan · 26/04/2022 13:57

Nope, that's not how it works. A civil court judge decided in all probability he had beaten his wife but that wasn't the same as being proven in a criminal trial with a jury. It was one man's opinion based on his reading of the evidence. The judge also happens to have a son working for the man who owns the newspaper Depp was suing.

misssatan · 26/04/2022 14:02

He didn't admit to deliberately head butting her.

And what happens if he wins the case? Will you say the earlier judgement was wrong? How will you square that based on your notion that whatever is decided in a court or by a judge must necessarily be true?

Do you think O J Simpson was innocent? After all he was declared so in a criminal trial.

whumpthereitis · 26/04/2022 14:06

Didn’t answer the question, I see. Or the myriad ones asked to you yesterday.

That it wasn’t a criminal case does not render the verdict to be any lesser in status. He lost his defamation trial, The Sun was not defaming him by calling him a wife beater as that is what he is, having committed acts of domestic violence on at least 12 occasions. A wife beater, as a matter of legal record.

I’m looking forward to your future threads though. Maybe they’ll be one about Rose West. You can go to bat for her given that she didn’t admit shit either.

whumpthereitis · 26/04/2022 14:07

misssatan · 26/04/2022 14:02

He didn't admit to deliberately head butting her.

And what happens if he wins the case? Will you say the earlier judgement was wrong? How will you square that based on your notion that whatever is decided in a court or by a judge must necessarily be true?

Do you think O J Simpson was innocent? After all he was declared so in a criminal trial.

Fancy answering my questions first? There’s been quite a few you’ve dodged.

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