To wish we never had DC6?

[FartVandelay]

We have two DC, 8 and 6.

DC8 has ADHD and while impulsive and a charterbox at times is very sweet and has a heart of gold. I worry about them being taken advantage of at school.

DC6 is a different story. Sneaky, crafty, bullies their sibling, talks back at us, lies and cheats. Yet is a completely different person at school. Their teachers are baffled when we ask how their behaviour is at school compared to home. I have constant battles with food with DC6. Evening meals take hours. They refuse to eat 90% of what I put in front of them regardless of whether they've eaten it before and professed it the best ever. They constantly defy me, hide sweets in their room. I love DC6 so so much but am at the end of my tether. I came close to telling DC6 I wish we'd never had them tonight. Feel like the worst parent. I see all these other families so happy. I was happy when DC6 was born, so happy. I thought our family was complete but if I could turn thr clock back I'm not sure what I'd do. They just make life so hard. I'm exhausted fighting these constant battles with DC6. DH is away with work until Tuesday. I just don't know if I can do two more nights of handling the DC alone. We have no family local and my friends all have their own families to deal with. Is it really this hard?

Interesting that lots have presumed that DC is a son, when descriptors like liar sneaky, crafty etc are not usually used in reference to male children.

I'm going to guess that DC are daughters.

Incidentally, my eldest is seen as very selfless. But it’s because she doesn’t have material attachments at all. It’s easy for her to share or to give to charity. My youngest struggles more but it’s because she does have those attachments and sentimental bonds. So comparisons can be really tricky.

Totally get this. Mine are 8 & 3 and together they constantly argue, fight and shout at each other. Separately, they are delightful. Eldest has ASD and delayed development. Its fucking hard and you aren't alone. 💐

OP has described some extremely minor wrongdoing and said she can’t actually think of more serious examples. It also seems likely that her prefernce for the older child is picked up on by the younger one, and that her routine of running through everything they did wrong every bedtime is probably damaging their self-esteem. It’s quite possible they’ve grown resentful of their golden child sibling.

I think it’s quite sick you’re trying to encourage their belief there’s something wrong with the younger child they’re casting as a black sheep, when the negative words they’ve used to describe that child don’t seem at all justified based on the behaviours described.

Well you've not suggested seeing a psychologicist for 'help with parenting' youve said I suppose that some children do have a form of conduct disorder and, at some point in the future, you may need to consult a child psychologist. I don't think that you should let yourself be talked into thinking it's all in your mind. Keep a sense of proportion, of course, but watch out, as the months and years go by, for more serious 'getting sibling into trouble'....or any more significant deceit, e.g. pilfering. which suggests you are advising that a 6yo not eating pizza crusts and making the cat crafting choice is going to lead to 'significant deceit'.

Kids know when they aren't the favourite, your 6 year knows you favour the 8 year old.

i Don’t agree with this at all!!

children often behave worse at home because they’ve got complete trust at home and in their parents. They trust that they’ll still be loved and won’t be pushed out etc

this is just making the OP feel worse when 99.9% of children behave this way.

I wouldn't be battling over food, especially not pizza crusts.

I wouldn't be bringing up negative behaviour before bed time either, praise the positives even if they are really small things

The behaviour towards the sibling is normal, they don't always get on and are some times mean . Plenty of parents have to deal with that daily

My younger 2 are older now but have a similar age gap. The youngest has asd , the older probably does too. They both have spd especially around food

I had to learn years ago not to turn meals into a battle, no one wins !

Oh and the often fight like cat and dog, just totally different personalities

Op hasn't actually said anything to evidence dc6 does feel safe and loved at home,
Dc6 is described by their mother as a sneaky, crafty bullying liar in contrast to the favoured child who is sweet and lovely with a heart of gold. As pp have said the dc will both likely know that's how you view them.

MichelleScarn

Not at all. The OP is citing some examples, but what's unsettling her is a feeling, and maybe it's the way the elder child is induced to give in to the younger, not the incident itself. We are always telling posters to trust their instincts about something being wrong, where partners or nannies are concerned. Why not trust one's instincts where children are concerned. Six is young, but be prepared to seek expert parenting advice, in future.

A child psychologist would be advising the mother and father on their approach and what is the current scientific finding on the behaviour being mentioned. I think a school would need to be involved, and the GP, before a private psychologist would agree to work with the child.

There are different types of psychologists and therapists, and all trained, so, yes, I should think what they say will be worth hearing. Better than becoming unhappy as a parent and bottling it up.

Conduct disorder isn't a diagnosis which always results in an adult diagnosis of anti-social personality disorder and the latter isn't always an indicator of sociopathy. We can't make a diagnosis, nor should we wish to. But what we can do is counsel balance, and it's important to acknowledge that parents' worries can be relevant, as well as it being vital to keep a perspective and not jump to the worst interpretation.

I haven't read everyone's responses so apologies op if this has been suggested already. But when your dc is behaving actually interrupt them and tell them there and then. ' Hey absolutely loving how well you're sharing at the moment ' or ' great jumping on the trampoline together , fantastic behaviour' . It sounds silly and you feel daft randomly interrupting them but it did actually make a difference to my sons behaviour .

Honestly OP your attitude sounds incredibly problematic. Most people don't like pizza crusts, hardly the 'crime' of the century not to eat them. You sound like you are trying to scapegoat a six year old, which is often the start of abusive or at the very least emotionally damaging behaviour. This is a SIX YEAR OLD you are calling 'sneaky', 'crafty', etc. Let me tell you that as a former teacher who did some time in primary schools as well as secondary schools - I never felt the need to call any child this, least of all primary age children. It's horrible how you talk about your child, and it suggests that your attitudes are the problem.

@Diverseopinions your opinion isn't very 'diverse' here is it? Why are you so repetitive about this 6year old having a 'conduct' disorder and psychoanalysing them?

Reflecting on it further... what comes across from your post most of all is a feeling of lack of love over minor ordinary childhood behaviour. Maybe time to look at yourself, not your 'sneaky' 'crafty' child.

Daffodilsandcoffee the whole point of Mumsnet is that you canvas a range of opinions. Nobody is encouraging or egging on, they are giving their own view. The OP takes a look at a range of opinions, which gives them a balance, and the see the majority view, and they see some reasons why some posters think a particular thing.

Some posters, me, on this occasion, want to counter the consensus in order to stop the poster being swayed too far, one way. It's good to look at things in the round from all angles.

There's a famous psychologist who says nothing should ever be a battle, everything stems from an unmet need. What is the child needing?

Can you mix up dinner time? Have a picnic inside on the floor. Just make it fun. See how your children respond in a different situation...

I'm a teacher and when we are finding children especially challenging we actually do "time in" with them - spending time one on one doing something fun or constructive to build a positive memory over a negative one. It also prevents the child from 'failing' again and repeating an unwanted behaviour because they are getting support and attention.

@pocketbunny love the sound of time in. Especially if it's available to any kid who is having an off day for any reason, and isn't monopolised by the same few. I do a version of this too, any time I feel particularly pissed off with one of my kids i make sure that I spend 2 hours (minimum) on my own with them doing something they love. It just seems to reset everyone (obviously know I'm privileged to have a supportive partner which allows this to happen and not everyone has that choice - it still takes a lot of juggling...and if necessary we abandon homework for the week to focus on wellbeing and talking). I also make sure that it evens out so they get the same time with me overall.

MichelleScarn I'm not psychoanalysing the six-year old, I've said, on the contrary, that we respondents don't have enough information or context to judge anything at all about the child. I've said nothing about the child's behaviour. I've said the mother may have worried based on the way interactions have come across to her, or the way she has interpreted subterfuge or cunning been carried out. It's just the OP's interpretation and concerns, but they could be sincerely-founded, so don't doubt your own feelings. I'm saying, don't rule out a problem with social responsibility, and if you're still concerned in future, there's the option of speaking to a trained expert , instead of discussing it with an armchair expert.

Interesting. I have two of the same sex, very similar ages and the oldest is diagnosed autistic. Very similar temperaments too by the sound of it! I would ask has your youngest always been like this? My youngest has definitely always been more of a wild child but I'm noticing that age six has definitely brought more challenges, it's quite a difficult age!

I would agree with questions over neurodiversity. It can definitely run in families and can present in different ways. My youngest is on the waiting list to be assessed for ADHD. However I'd been suspecting this for a long long time, I just had to bide my time until he was old enough to be accepted for assessment.

I'm a single parent so can't really do much tag teaming and it is difficult for sure but does your older child have any special interests they can do on their own? My older child is much more interested in the iPad than the younger one so sometimes at the weekend I'll get the older 'hooked up' to minecraft and me and the younger one will play board games for a while (he absolutely loves any kind of board or card game!) Maybe that's a possibility? Just spending a little bit of 1:1 time can make a big bit of difference.

I do get it though, it can be enormously hard and frustrating but they're not bad people or flawed in their characters. They're just small people trying to work out their place in the world and unfortunately sometimes they'll do whatever they can to get that attention, whether it's negative or positive! I'm writing as if I've got it all figured out and I definitely don't-my 6 year old and I have had some absolute battles but I am trying to make it more fun for all of us. Bloody hard work though!

Sounds like normal-ish 6yo behaviour to me.

DS1's finest moment at that age was trying to frame DS2 for biting... 1) it was out of character for DS2... 2) DS1 was missing the same teeth as the deep bite mark in his arm 😂

DS1 has ended up with ASD and dyspraxia diagnoses initiated by a variety of traits. He's very much a masker at school. He can be hard work, and more so for me. I'm there constantly. I'm forgiving. When DH is away there's the double whammy of change of routine/ dynamic and lack of back-up. At 6-7 we had some right humdinger moments when DH was out of the country.

Even before diagnosis, just getting a referal and putting all his idiosyncracies together and opening up to the possibility of him being ND made a difference. I use a lot of humour in my parenting. I don't get emotionally drawn into his moods- he's not getting personal with me, there'll be something else underlying and probably not the superficial thing he's blown over. I do lose patience sometimes, but I do well before getting to that point.

There are consequences and I pick battles that matter. 1:1 time with both DCs is important. I hope I meet the needs of both my DCs' personalities and emotions. DS1 can be a rotter to DS2, but they also love each other. DS1 can also be lovely with other children; he was recently particularly gentle and kind with a nervous new Cub and read his needs well because he identified with them.

NT or ND, you can tweak your parenting and see if it results in a happier parent-child relationship.

I read this as

Masking at school
Sensory issues around food
Constant battles (defiance and/or communication issues, if it's about moving from one activity to another then problems with the transitions)
Problems with rule following and authority
Binge eating/ sugar addiction
Impulse control issues (and lying to cover the shame of their behaviour or to avoid the punishments)

That's a whole lot of neurodiversity right there! Just because you have one child with ADHD doesn't mean you won't have two (actually your more likely to if one has it) and also doesn't mean you won't have one with ADHD and one with ASD or one with ADHD and one with ADHD and ASD combo. Things like gender and where they fall in the family order can have a massive impact on kids, so I wouldn't rule out that they both have ADHD just because they are very different from each other. Also, with any of these things people can have bigger deficits in one area to another. Eg. One person with ADHD might become overwhelmed very easily in a noisy classroom whereas another has higher tolerance for noise, or one may have lots of problems with time keeping but rarely lose things, and another not struggle with that so much but instead struggle with keeping track of their things. The biggest variation IME is to do with gender/sex though.

I know friends with fussy eaters who have done this method "division of responsibilities" to take the stress out of mealtimes:

www.yummytoddlerfood.com/the-division-of-responsibility/

(That website is aimed at parents of toddlers but D.O.R. is suitable for any age.)

Just going to be frank for the sake of all involved.

Your child is six. Six! You need to seriously dial down they way you think and speak about them, and the golden child role you are putting DC1 in.

Regarding mealtimes.. Offer meal. Don't like it? Cheese sandwich and an apple. Done. No battles needed. No wonder they hide food/leftovers.

Also the appraisal of the day stuff... This is your child, not a probationary employee. They don't need a recap of their fuck ups and an action plan for future improvement. Just read a story and have some cuddles.

Remember how you were a child once? Try to connect with how it feels.

The family therapy suggestion is an excellent one.