Needy Neighbour - still - again

[LoveMyPiano]

Disclosure - I have written about this situation before, and do try to keep out of it, but it keeps evolving as these things do. Note also, that I did agree to be her baby's Godmother [last minute request], but baby has now been adopted, and no more contact.

The very first time I wrote about this, I was told by some that I was over-invested and have a saviour-complex (I wish...), and as I have said above, I obviously did not succeed in creating, if not actual, at least figurative distance.

The young woman who lives next door (she in small apartments - 8 total; me in s/d house alongside) is someone I have known OF for quite a few years. I am old enough to be her mother (my own daughter is 5 years older than her); she has adoptive parents who live a little distance away (n/c with birth parents or family) but they are very very cold with her, although do help with lifts and things and (are supposed to) take care of her money (benefits are paid to them and they give hr an allowance - NOTE, I have just found out that they are not keping on top of her household bills, as agreed, as debt collectors have shown up for BG and a pre-paymet meter is going in to clear unpaid amounts).
She is relying on me very heavily and as other people cut her off, and cut her out, it is falling to me. She comes round to my friend's (where I am from about 8:45pm) apartment (he is in the same complex), usually in a distressed state over her "boyfriend" (babydaddy - he is a bit useless really) - and we are both too "nice" to turn her away ; then she justs sits or stands in the living room, going over and over the same things (she does not take advice on board, she just wants to be agreed with over this man and hear her own voice). She usually interrupts the late evening meal we might be about to eat, and does not care.

I cannot leave my house without her coming out to get me to help her with something. Or, she seems to appear when I return..... And I have been very snappish with her, but she is not deterred - and then anyway I feel terrible and cannot focus on what I was meant to be doing (which I realise is my own weakness and stupidity). I am now disproportionatey anxious over this (as, as I have tried to explain to her, her dramatics (and they CAN be - and she usually involved the Police herself....) can be on top of something else that I am trying to figure out in my own life at that time.

I cannot seem to get the balnce right - and I think I AM looking on here for someone to rant to myself (so in a way, like my neighbour....). It is just not easy to detach when there is no physical escape, and everything I think of that might help would actually result in further involevemnt, not less.
[And I do like to think that I am somewhat kind and (was) reasonably patient.]

Example, last night, we were just about tp eat - about 9:40 (very bad itself, and another issue of mine) and she appeared at the patio door (even though sheer curtains were drawn) waving her phone at me to speak to her Social Worker. She fell on the floor crying, and put her head on my knees, and was freezing cold, having been walking aroun the village (looking for the bf I think....) in her dressing gown. She didnt leave until 10:30 - and I believe she didn't settle at home even then, as her gate was open at minight (a bad sign).

For whatever advice I am seeking (and yes, I DO want to move/not easy - as this is very much a proximity issue, I don't think she respects me or my opionion or feelings at all....), please don't tell me to Get a Life, or that I am over-invested, because I do really try not to be.

But...... Heeeelp.....?
Please

I wonder if 'helping' these people is fulfilling some need within you OP?

It reads like you surround yourself with people that have issues, does that ring true for you at all?

You want to be kind and help people, but no matter how much that might come from a good place you are not helping these people only adding to the drama whether meaning to or not.

You are perpetuating these toxic situations, I wonder if you have really thought about why? I don't think it's just that you are trying to be kind I think there is a deeper issue (maybe more than one) at play here.

I really hope you look at some counselling for yourself I think it would really be beneficial for you.

You deserve to live a happy life and without some sort of support (such as therapy) to look into the bigger issues surrounding all of this I'm not sure that'll be possible.

@LoveMyPiano sorry I had to go do stuff. You need to report it to the housing staff as well it’s antisocial behaviour at best.

this absolutely. See I don't think moving will help you because you seem to me to be a catastrophe magnet. I am betting that LOADS of people on here have had a similar "starter" experience of a needy neighbour, a demanding friend, accosted by a stranger in need or something similar. Its a part of life. The difference is that most people will help immediately then back away or, if they are concerned, they will decline to help (I know a bloke, fellow clinician who was attacked because he didn't listen to his gut) I think it might be worth getting some help to see what you get from these circumstances....because you may not redcognise it and what you are getting may be toxic but you sure as heck are getting something or you wouldn't do it.

I see what you ar both saying - and it is probably quite quite true. For long-standing reasons, I am a bit of a pushover/people-pleaser, due in no small part to abandonment issues. Counselling would be very hard to access, and probably futile now, at this late stage.
Life has come full circle, but when i felt this way as a child (and the reasons were valid then, despite relevant parties dismissing and diminishing them), there was more life ahead. Now it is all in the rear view mirror and my mother was right when she said, the last time I saw her, which is now seven years ago, "You have fucked up your life, and it is all your own doing".
And she didn't even know the full story herself.

She is still alive - somewhere, I think.

Counselling isn’t hard to come by. There are thousands of therapists who work in dozens of ways, and you can search for people in your area on the BACP register. You could click on this link and send an email to a counsellor now, this evening, in the next fifteen minutes, then speak to them to see if they think they could help you.

www.bacp.co.uk/about-therapy/how-to-find-a-therapist/

You would be very surprised about the help they can offer. You are not a lost cause, and you deserve to have your own fulfilled life, not one where you only exist in terms of what you do for other people. But it will take work to get you to the point where you believe this, and a counsellor will help you to get there.

You are the only person who can do this, and you have to take the first steps. I hope this thread might give you the additional push you need.

Do you really want to be back posting the same thread again in another six months, or six years? Do it for you: for the child you who had such a hard time; for the lost adult you; for the happy future you that you deserve.

Oh op. This sounds very tough.

I would be shutting the two things down. Hurrying past with a cheery hello, sorry, can't stop and not answering the door.

I'd also get my piano back and stop spending all my time taking care of other people. It's time to take care of yourself.

OP, in my life I’ve learned that people who continually demonstrate a behaviour do so because they get something out of it, no matter how much they protest.

I think you need to speak to a therapist to understand why you need what you need from your interactions with this woman, and also your friend.

@LoveMyPiano Can you give her a time when it's ok for her to bother you? Maybe an hour once a week? Would that still be too much? If she comes to your door you must stand at the door, listen for a short time. and then when you've had enough say that you have to go. You've got to stop letting her in I suppose. If she has a mind like a child then you've got to be firm and consistent like you would be with a child. Help her by giving her boundaries and structures.

Ignore her. Block her.

You're being a mug.

Hi,

I couldn’t read and not respond. I haven’t read the whole thread but there has been some excellent advice from others, particularly around boundaries. If this lady has an attachment disorder she struggles with relationships with others and asking for help/developing closeness in appropriate and healthy ways. By working with her in the way that you are (being reactive to the crises as they happen), you may be inadvertently being much less helpful than you intend. You’re reinforcing something for her - that when she reaches out to others in chaotic ways then she is seen and heard.

From what you’ve said, there is a lot of support available to her. I’m not suggesting that you fully withdraw but have clearer, firmer, transparent boundaries for her sake as much as yours. This might involve her being able to talk to (at?) you between 10-11am each day or Wednesday afternoons, whatever works for you and allows you to reduce the guilty feelings you have. When she comes to your friend’s flat, tell her that you are eating and she cannot come in; that you are available when you have agreed. Then be available then, so she can learn that she can trust that; keep consistent. This could be really good for her and I hope better for you. She is quite capable of eliciting help from professionals in emergencies.

The second part is to deal with the challenging feelings that setting boundaries produces in you. This could be by accessing therapy or simple exercises like identifying what your brain is telling you will go wrong when the anxiety attack comes along, then weighing up whether that’s true/likely/unlikely/unhelpful.

I’m sorry to say but you cannot solve all this lady’s issues; they have developed over her whole life. You can care and support from a distance that also allows you to care for and support yourself. I really admire how much you want to help and I wish you all the best.

OK, you get your wish and move away ASAP (and if it will help you, I sincerely hope that you can)

What will she do then? I think you know in your heart that you are not indispensable to her, you are just making yourself available at the moment. You can say no now, and if you don't do so, you are doing neither her or yourself any favours.

I don't think this will have any plangency as pretty much everyone is saying variants of the same thing.

Is your female neighbour actually not supposed to be on permanent medication for a ''mental condition''? I am not a doctor but time was when people like her took ''mood controlling'' drug on daily basis. I knew someone who appeared completely normal when she took her drugs but acted completely insane without them.

I've read your other threads too, there is definitely a you problem, not just them as a PP has said. You are causing all your own problems here, enabling people who are vulnerable and incapable to treat you like this, by not acting appropriately yourself. But you won't change, you will keep.posting variations of this, get amazing advice that you ignore and continue suffering. What a waste of your life. You aren't helping her, at all, or yourself.

I really do think you're causing her more problems by propping her up. She isn't coping, but all the while you're patching over the cracks she will remain in the community and will deteriorate. SS don't act while she is being indirectly and directly 'helped' but -
You're not helping, you're making it worse. Sorry to be blunt. There's an air of defeat about your posts, like this is all terribly inevitable that you'll keep being put upon, 'caught' 'cornered' 'spotted'. It doesn't have to be that way and you can make moves away from both these people. When you're in a hole, stop digging. Tell social services bluntly. They will be forced to help her.

Almost the same thought as OakRowan.

Could I ask? When people are saying they have read my previous thread/s - are they ones with another user name (which is how I posted about at least one of these situations originally)? If so, how is that possible?

I know, you are right.
Definitely a Me problem.

And I DO appreciate all the amazing advice and points of view. I won't "keep posting", I promise.

Even when I do assert myself (i.e. lose my temper), and tell her to leave me alone, she comes again sooner or later (usually sooner).

So tell her to go away again, FFS! Don’t lose your temper and then be there for her when she comes round again. If it continues, report her for harassment.

The more I read of your follow ups, and about your other issues, the more it becomes clear that you actually have no intention of resolving the situations you’ve got yourself into. You’ve been given a ton of good advice, repeatedly, and you just keep dismissing it or trying to think of reasons you don’t agree with it.

You know how your neighbour keeps coming round and moaning about her boyfriend over and over again but won’t actually take any advice or do anything to resolve things? Well, that is exactly what you’re doing here.

The main reason your neighbour doesn’t cope and isn’t getting the help she needs from social services etc is because you have taken it upon yourself to step in instead. Why the fuck are you liaising with her social worker and phoning her college? That’s not kindness, that’s overstepping the mark. She’s a vulnerable adult and you are not her guardian, family or carer. You’re way too involved in her life.

There are many people like your neighbour living all over the country and they all manage to get by without you. Part of the reason your neighbour isn’t getting support from elsewhere is because you are stepping in all the time and fulfilling that role yourself. You’re not actually helping at this point, you’re just exacerbating her behaviour and infantilising her.

OP you need to toughen up.

pamic attacks over being mildly assertive?
stop being such a doormat and tell her to leave you alone

@ManateeFair Again - I am NOT dismissing the advice. I am absorbing all of it, and will follow some of it if I can.

I must have it the wrong way round then - but facing facts, no-one official is going to simply listen to her having a"moan" about bf, or her situation, are they? It escalates to them - by her - when no-one will listen to her about smaller matters, but not until.
I really did think I was just being a friend/sort of mother figure (albeit reluctantly) about some of the things - and am a bit more life-experienced. I do not infantalise her, or I didn't think I did.

Panic attacks over "being mildly assertive" on top of other things that are bothering me....
People never know when they are the last straw for someone.
(Inlcuding on the internet.)

This scenario reminds me of a situation shared by an amazing, well-known, and highly regarded trauma therapist, Janina Fisher, in a podcast I listen to (The Trauma Therapist - Episode 3). She was asked about a clinical mistake she had made. She spoke about a client like this woman you are struggling with, who had Borderline Personality Disorder (I don't recall if Janina specified that diagnosis but that was the behavioural/psychological pattern). The client sought more and more help/input from Janina, for example wanting to call her out of hours for crises, wanting Janina to read her journal entries between sessions and write responses, all of which Janina did in her desire to be there for the client. Over time instead of this helping, the client got worse in terms of symptoms, demanding more, angrier with Janina for not meeting her needs sufficiently in her mind, and eventually making a formal complaint against her, resulting in Janina losing her job. A very brave thing to share. Janina's motivation was wanting to be helpful to the client, but her behaviour had the opposite effect, rewarding the client's dysfunctional behaviour/way of relating to others, and sending the message to the client that she was reliant on Janina and not able to cope on her own.

I see this same pattern here. Your misguided effort to "be kind" is not kind in its impact on this woman - you are contributing to concealing her full needs from the authorities and giving more of an impression she can cope. She needs to be screaming outside that she'll end it all (as you say she would do if you didn't respond to her) and have as many emergency service visits as are warranted, as then her full needs are more clear and the authorities will be more clear on what formal help she needs and whether or not her current living situation is tenable. You are not qualified to be her carer, social worker or therapist. By trying to fill this gap you are harming her, even if well-intentioned.

I would also be very interested in your responses to the questions of the previous poster who asked about the extent to which you acted on those previous specific bits of advice. I noticed that you did not answer this and your tone shifted, communicating helplessness and despondence and feeling misunderstood. I think you need to reflect on why you feel a need to "be nice" and why your understanding of what that means differs from others, and what needs of your own you are meeting with your behaviour. You are the steward of your own life and only you can make changes or consider/adopt more functional patterns of behaviour that will help you long term. This woman does not represent you as a child. She sounds severely mentally ill. Everyone is different and what you needed as a child is not necessarily what another person needs.

It’s easy to recognise you from your earlier threads, because you have told us all about both your neighbours in them, and your situation is unusual, so clearly I’m not the only poster in whose mind your threads have lodged. Your voice is recognisable, too, but it’s mainly the fact that people do have memory for the contents and journey of threads, particularly those where they have gone out of their way to offer advice. Doing so takes thought and effort, and for myself, I do remember threads where I’ve done that in particular.

I understand that much, although didn;t realise that my voice was so recognisable...... But I wondered mainly how people connected a thread with a different user name, that''s all. (And why bother changing it, if it still shows up in a search or something, rather than just to me.) Some people who have commented and advised on here, do not appear on the pevious threads, so they might have changed the user names to. Very confusing (to me).