Needy Neighbour - still - again

[LoveMyPiano]

Disclosure - I have written about this situation before, and do try to keep out of it, but it keeps evolving as these things do. Note also, that I did agree to be her baby's Godmother [last minute request], but baby has now been adopted, and no more contact.

The very first time I wrote about this, I was told by some that I was over-invested and have a saviour-complex (I wish...), and as I have said above, I obviously did not succeed in creating, if not actual, at least figurative distance.

The young woman who lives next door (she in small apartments - 8 total; me in s/d house alongside) is someone I have known OF for quite a few years. I am old enough to be her mother (my own daughter is 5 years older than her); she has adoptive parents who live a little distance away (n/c with birth parents or family) but they are very very cold with her, although do help with lifts and things and (are supposed to) take care of her money (benefits are paid to them and they give hr an allowance - NOTE, I have just found out that they are not keping on top of her household bills, as agreed, as debt collectors have shown up for BG and a pre-paymet meter is going in to clear unpaid amounts).
She is relying on me very heavily and as other people cut her off, and cut her out, it is falling to me. She comes round to my friend's (where I am from about 8:45pm) apartment (he is in the same complex), usually in a distressed state over her "boyfriend" (babydaddy - he is a bit useless really) - and we are both too "nice" to turn her away ; then she justs sits or stands in the living room, going over and over the same things (she does not take advice on board, she just wants to be agreed with over this man and hear her own voice). She usually interrupts the late evening meal we might be about to eat, and does not care.

I cannot leave my house without her coming out to get me to help her with something. Or, she seems to appear when I return..... And I have been very snappish with her, but she is not deterred - and then anyway I feel terrible and cannot focus on what I was meant to be doing (which I realise is my own weakness and stupidity). I am now disproportionatey anxious over this (as, as I have tried to explain to her, her dramatics (and they CAN be - and she usually involved the Police herself....) can be on top of something else that I am trying to figure out in my own life at that time.

I cannot seem to get the balnce right - and I think I AM looking on here for someone to rant to myself (so in a way, like my neighbour....). It is just not easy to detach when there is no physical escape, and everything I think of that might help would actually result in further involevemnt, not less.
[And I do like to think that I am somewhat kind and (was) reasonably patient.]

Example, last night, we were just about tp eat - about 9:40 (very bad itself, and another issue of mine) and she appeared at the patio door (even though sheer curtains were drawn) waving her phone at me to speak to her Social Worker. She fell on the floor crying, and put her head on my knees, and was freezing cold, having been walking aroun the village (looking for the bf I think....) in her dressing gown. She didnt leave until 10:30 - and I believe she didn't settle at home even then, as her gate was open at minight (a bad sign).

For whatever advice I am seeking (and yes, I DO want to move/not easy - as this is very much a proximity issue, I don't think she respects me or my opionion or feelings at all....), please don't tell me to Get a Life, or that I am over-invested, because I do really try not to be.

But...... Heeeelp.....?
Please

What would happen if you ignored her when at the male friends house? Shut the curtains and don’t answer the door?

Yes (and I did disclose in my OP, but didn't want to retell it all....), I AM the one who posted about both her, and the situation with my friend. Both of which, to be honest, I truly want to escape, or at the very least change. I just - my own issues I guess - don't seem able to, I do hate it, by the way - and have little to no support, which is why I identify with and feel sorry for NDN.

My writing style must be qute recognisable, I guess. I can't seem to change that either though (a bit wordy probably).

It has taken mental toll over the last year, and I had just taken the resolve to protect my own mind - so of course, have failed at that as well.

My fear IS that the SWs think I can take this on, when quite the opposite is true. And I am certainly not qualified for it, so they should not push it onto me either....

I did not intend to drag my friend into it (and the issues wrt him/me remain, as he is the ultimate "stick in the mud" - there are things that he could change about his life, and does not) but she would have done anyway, as she has one by one involved herself with other people in the apartments.... Two out of the eight have actually moved out BECAUSE of her, and she is causing problems for two of those who have moved in since - one directly above.

I am resurrecting a plan (wish, more like) that I had over five years ago - which unfortnately WILL need money, and a little more than I have - that will I hope mean that I can live out my life in a more peaceful and suitable (for me) setting. Otherwise, I cannot see a way forward.

Your dilemma OP is that you are buying into her drama / disordered thinking. There's an age old mantra - you can't change someone else's behaviour, all you can change is your own response in the hope that you'll get a different reaction. You have got yourself involved in a situation that even the professionals are weary of. There are no easy answers and any solutions to her issues are outside your influence.
Your choice is stark - you either continue to enable her dramas and evident illness or you put in place boundaries and stop getting involved.
Whether it's something a simple as, "not now, I'm busy", refusing to answer the door, changing the times / place where you see your other neighbour etc, the decisions are yours. You asked posters not to point out that you're "over invested" - but you are invested - to the extent of becoming a godmother, (you could have said no) speaking to her social worker, (you could have said no). You say you can't ignore her because of her self harming threats but maybe consider that unqualified responses to an unwell person could be unintentionally harmful. You need to protect yourself from that potential scenario.

Remember the Mumsnet mantra: No is a complete sentence.

She would - sadly - ring the doorbell (the apartments are behind locked electric gates, but oof course, she is within the gates), go to the kitchen window (no blinds), look out for and pounce on me when I left - and /or make a fake or real phone call in very loud volume - and as well, maybe call the Police, and cry (real or pretend) and scream that she "has had enough"....
It escalates when she does not get response to her lower level actions.

@LoveMyPiano
Apologies, my answer was simplistic because I haven't read your previous threads and don't fully understand the situation with NDN and their requirements.

It sounds like you are desperate to escape these two people but (and I know this sounds harsh) finding many many excuses not to.
Imagine what life would like without the worry of these two around your neck: is it worth the hassle of getting away / the guilt of cutting them off but remaining in the same house? If so, find a way (and not a 5-10year plan, you'll only find more reasons not to / waste more life in that time). If not, maybe there are some changes you can make to carve out more time for yourself. It's your life, YOU should be the most important person in it.

I think that you can be firm but kind. Saying things such as, ‘I’m not able to support you with this’ or ‘it is inappropriate for me to be involved’.

Signpost her if you must be do not try to be anything other than someone she lives near. She needs more support than you can give.

I agree 100%. I actually said to ther (ref. "bf") that she couldn't change what he did, only what she does, so I know that I should take my own advice (she won't take mine, that's certain). It has been optimistic of me to think that anything I might do (including being Godmother - which was ridiculous really, but I would probably o the same again....) would change what is going on, and getting worse.

Believe me, I really really, really did not want to become enbroiled in this. I had nightmares when I heard she was coming to live next door - and now I am again, losing sleep as there is no escape, and has time has passed and nothing has changed, my ability to cope has reduced to an extent that no-one irl can see or would believe. Pathetically, I am at the end of my tether (but of course, in part due to my other issues) - but I am trying to be a good person and at the same time, I just wish someone would make the problem go away.

And yes, I suppose I had not really thought through that I could - not matter how well-intentioned - do more harm than good, due to being unqualified.... But, in the moment, I just want to try and help the drama be dialled down, and there be less upset for all parties.

Instead of trying to solve your neighbour's and your friend's problems, you need to focus on your own.
Could you invest some money into accessing some therapy for you to help you unpick why you get so enmeshed in other folks' issues, despite knowing this has a detrimental impact on you?
Therapy could also help you develop some coping strategies so that you are more able to deal with the emotional blackmail which is being dumped in your lap.
Good luck.

Well yes. And I agree. However, they ARE my problems (in addition to, of course, my other ones). Enmeshed just sounds so - intentional? It sometimes evolves into something not easy to extricate from. Hence looking for MN wisdom 😔

A) You need to tell her social worker about the bills/benefits issue, if she is so vulnerable that there is an agreement her parents are meant to be handling this and are not doing it properly it becomes a safeguarding issue. You also need to tell the SW that you are going to step back as you cannot cope with her level of over reliance on you.

B) You then need to step right back. Tell her very firmly that this is what you are going to do. If you want to maintain some sort of involvement, tell her a time period where you will be available (eg a Wednesday morning) and stick to it. Do not engage outside that timeframe. She comes to the door, you tell her you are busy. She approaches you to help with something or offload about boyfriend, you walk away. You don't answer her phone calls. Every single time. I know this doesn't sound "nice" but she has official support and if you want this to stop or at least become more manageable, this is what you will have to do.

So what happens if you stop going over to cook for your friend? If you stay in your lane, stay in your own house, don't answer the door? She may still try to collar you on the way to the car, so you say "I'm not allowed to speak with you."

Your interactions with vulnerable and unstable people are leaving you open to all sorts of accusations.

Op some people just really love drama and your needy neighbour is clearly one of them. Most of this sounds self created drama to get attention.
She has also cast you as a rescuer (look at the drama triangle) with boyfriend/authorities as persecutor.

she is an adult and mild LDs (and presumably poor mental health) not withstanding she needs to take ownership of her life. Disengage. Ideally move.

Should I really HAVE to do that though? Hardly sustainable, and as bad for my mental well-being as being collared..... although I am already doing it to an extent.
My piano is in the apartment though (see username).

The thought of accusations worries me, and I hadn't fully thought about that until this thread.

You do need to cut off support, or introduce very strong boundaries ie you will check in on her once a week. Tell her you are dealing with personal problems and can't be disturbed. Do not answer the door. Let her know you will call the police if she persists. Do it. You can inform her social worker that she seems to be struggling and in need of more support, but her SW can't stop her from bothering you, or indeed make her do anything. She is not on probation (I assume) . You need to set your own firm boundaries or move. It sounds awful, but her reliance on you and your friend, might actually be masking her level of need - it may take a crisis point, to get the level of support she needs. Toughen up for your own wellbeing.

I mean this kindly but honestly. If you don't choose NOT to do something then you ARE choosing to do it. The choice not to do it might be hard for you but it iS a choice. As I said earlier, from what you said it sounds like my situation. I am maybe more used than you to extracting myself from situations because I was supplying a local service in the area where I lived and often used to meet patients and ex patients around and about. .....but as I said if you are not choosing to extricate yourself (and you know how to) then you are choosing to be entangled.

(Note - she chooses to tell all - most - about her finances; I do NOT ask....)

This does worry me, and I did wonder if it could be classed as financial abuse rather than simply mismanagement. Her having Debt Collectors call when she totally trusts her parents to pay her household expenses from the/HER benefits that are paid to them was shocking to hear. And worrying, as I cannot see her keeping good control of a PP meter.... She has an allowance (of far more discretionary spending money than I do) on Wednesday, and is so hard-up that she is borrowing by Friday.

I had thought of specifying a time that I could allocate, but I KNOW she won't abide by it. She did have a support worker who would accompany her - but it stopped becuase she couldn't "afford it". (I didn't know they were paid.) I think she needs to look at that again.
She has been offered many many things to help her learn the skills to live indpendently and to have a nice life, but she gives up very quickly, as all she wants is this "bf", and to do whatever he is doing. She got a College prospectus, but then wanted me to complete the application - when really she needs Additional Support for that too. So, I called the College and that is something they WILL do for her, but she may not follow up, and I am not really sure they would accept her....
By the way though, she does not actually - thank the Lord - have my phone number. In all this time, I have never given it to her. But the Official Support that she has does seem to be very limited at the moment, when she actually seems to need it more than ever.

Given that you have posted about both your neighbour and your friend that you eat with every night before, and you are still not saying no to either of them, I’m not sure what further advice anyone can really give you.

This woman is not your responsibility. Let her call the police if she wants to. Let them deal with her. Report her for harassment if you need to. You and your friend need to stop bloody letting her in, you need to stop talking to her and you need to stop worrying about whether her parents are managing her household bills or not. None of this is up to you to deal with.

You definitely, definitely have some major issues of your own in terms of boundaries and assertiveness that you need to get some help with.

You are right. I do. Always have had, and there are reasons.

But I also try to be kind, or at least, not UNkind. It shouldn't need to become, whatever "this" is though.

Even when I do assert myself (i.e. lose my temper), and tell her to leave me alone, she comes again sooner or later (usually sooner). I was once told - by a parent actually - that I was like the ball in swingball,; kept coming back even though I wasn't wanted. I see that in her. But I''m not going to say anything out loud.

@LoveMyPiano who owns these apartments?

Housing Association.

Safe tenancies, and only evict when rent not paid (usually after someone has moved out and they didnt take note), not that I am saying she should be evicted. She was moved out after trouble at the previous (Council) flat.

" I am trying to be a good person"

There is your problem. Why do you feel the need to be a good person? Being good is making you ill. She is not a good person, if she was a good person, she would recognise how she makes you feel. She doesnt. Its not that she wants to make you feel bad, she just doesnt care about you. Why should you care about her, and give her all this mental free rent?

" I was once told - by a parent actually - that I was like the ball in swingball,; kept coming back even though I wasn't wanted. I see that in her."

Ii wonder if this explains it, that you recognise someone who is similarly rejected in a way that you once were and is using the same coping mechanisms.

I'm curious that although you spend a great deal of time at a friend's apartment where your beloved piano is, you dont mention his reaction to her behaviour. You are quite clear this is a friend not a partner, but its unusual to spend so much time in a friends home or have a treasured possession there.

Why not just move the piano back to your own house, and be a hermit for a while until the relevant people identify the support that she needs or she crashes and burns. With 3 police call outs in a week, it seems like she would hit that stage quite quickly.

@Cailleachian Yes, you have some insights that resonate. I think I cannot help but try to be "good" - or just patient, tolerant, and those kind of things - because it is in general, my nature. The occasions when I have tried to get her to stop (one day earlier this week), I did have a "mild" anxiety attack, and felt guilty for the rest of the day.

When the parent said that to me, I was hardly seeing them anyway (and don't any longer - either of them), it seemed particularly cruel, and also almost irrelevant. In the case of my NDN, she is a little more ike the ball in Swingball, as it is a daily occurrence, and she does not get the/any message.

But rejection has been a theme for me. And I DO recognise that in her - and see it happen, even when it is not my doing. It is just uncomfortable.
She just cannot moderate herself, or be "grateful" when someone has given her help, advice, money or whatever. It is though she has her mind wiped clean overnight and she is back again. SSDD, as they say.

The piano was put there when I had neighbours who complained, and his didn't (as he himself - above - played the trumpet!). It is not, as I am sure you know, easy to move a piano, so this arrangement has not been too bad.

I think I would like my friend to tell her not come there (maybe he wants to tell me not to as well?!) - regardless of whether or not I am there. The biggest row I had with her several months ago was when she was in a public place - I was there - telling people that she had gone to knock on his door to ask a favour and he answered the door in his undies. Which he did not. But when things like that are said, it is believed. I feel too that he is trying to be "nice"/patient - but the cost for him could be high when she spouts lies like that! I avoided her and didn't even speak to her for weeks, and I do wish it could have stayed that way.

@LoveMyPiano
Sorry, I don't know the set up with NDN, late dinners and the piano but it sounds a bit irregular?
This woman is seeing that you already care for someone in the same block of flats and she (in her own special way) thinks "why not me too?"
You keep giving examples of times that you said yes when you could have said no (late night phone calls with SW, being collared by her when leaving the house etc.) but also times that you have become overly involved without being asked (not just refusing to fill out college application but calling the college yourself?)
Practically every bit of advice you have been given you have already decided it won't work? How do you know? If you weren't so involved the chances are she would find a more appropriate person to help her or the authorities would step in more readily. Yes - they think you're a busy body, because you are telling them she needs support but actually going out of your way to support her (unqualified support) yourself.
Take one giant step back for your own sanity and in the long term it will do her good too.

You are going to have to get very tough. There is a reason why everyone else has distanced themselves from NDN. You need to do the same for your own sanity & fir her sake too. SW is no doubt overworked & yiu stepping up means that NDN is no longer a priority. They won't hear, I can't help, because you ate & that needs to stop.

I had a slight similar situation when I was younger, so I totally understand how difficult it is to get away from them & the feeling the need to be polite because of their obvious SN issues, but mine was a male neighbour who knocked on my door using my cats as an excuse at any time from 7am- 2 am & was always outside when I left my flat & knocked & knocked if I ignored him. Always friendly, never overtly sexual, but I later found out he'd told neighbours I was his fiancé & even gave me a fake name.

What worked... flinging open my front door & screaming in his face "will you just fuck off & leave me alone" repeated a couple of more times with the when I caught him hanging around outside my flat. By that time I was so mentally fried by the situation I just snapped. A neighbour over heard & it was them that told me what he'd told other neighbours

Yiu can be nice & make it stop I'm afraid. They don't understand it. It needs as blunt & as harsh as you can muster.

Urgh, typos agogo 🥴

You CAN'T be nice & make it stop. But that's okay