Needy Neighbour - still - again

[LoveMyPiano]

Disclosure - I have written about this situation before, and do try to keep out of it, but it keeps evolving as these things do. Note also, that I did agree to be her baby's Godmother [last minute request], but baby has now been adopted, and no more contact.

The very first time I wrote about this, I was told by some that I was over-invested and have a saviour-complex (I wish...), and as I have said above, I obviously did not succeed in creating, if not actual, at least figurative distance.

The young woman who lives next door (she in small apartments - 8 total; me in s/d house alongside) is someone I have known OF for quite a few years. I am old enough to be her mother (my own daughter is 5 years older than her); she has adoptive parents who live a little distance away (n/c with birth parents or family) but they are very very cold with her, although do help with lifts and things and (are supposed to) take care of her money (benefits are paid to them and they give hr an allowance - NOTE, I have just found out that they are not keping on top of her household bills, as agreed, as debt collectors have shown up for BG and a pre-paymet meter is going in to clear unpaid amounts).
She is relying on me very heavily and as other people cut her off, and cut her out, it is falling to me. She comes round to my friend's (where I am from about 8:45pm) apartment (he is in the same complex), usually in a distressed state over her "boyfriend" (babydaddy - he is a bit useless really) - and we are both too "nice" to turn her away ; then she justs sits or stands in the living room, going over and over the same things (she does not take advice on board, she just wants to be agreed with over this man and hear her own voice). She usually interrupts the late evening meal we might be about to eat, and does not care.

I cannot leave my house without her coming out to get me to help her with something. Or, she seems to appear when I return..... And I have been very snappish with her, but she is not deterred - and then anyway I feel terrible and cannot focus on what I was meant to be doing (which I realise is my own weakness and stupidity). I am now disproportionatey anxious over this (as, as I have tried to explain to her, her dramatics (and they CAN be - and she usually involved the Police herself....) can be on top of something else that I am trying to figure out in my own life at that time.

I cannot seem to get the balnce right - and I think I AM looking on here for someone to rant to myself (so in a way, like my neighbour....). It is just not easy to detach when there is no physical escape, and everything I think of that might help would actually result in further involevemnt, not less.
[And I do like to think that I am somewhat kind and (was) reasonably patient.]

Example, last night, we were just about tp eat - about 9:40 (very bad itself, and another issue of mine) and she appeared at the patio door (even though sheer curtains were drawn) waving her phone at me to speak to her Social Worker. She fell on the floor crying, and put her head on my knees, and was freezing cold, having been walking aroun the village (looking for the bf I think....) in her dressing gown. She didnt leave until 10:30 - and I believe she didn't settle at home even then, as her gate was open at minight (a bad sign).

For whatever advice I am seeking (and yes, I DO want to move/not easy - as this is very much a proximity issue, I don't think she respects me or my opionion or feelings at all....), please don't tell me to Get a Life, or that I am over-invested, because I do really try not to be.

But...... Heeeelp.....?
Please

Previously it was "access to a horse yard" for a now-long-deceased horse and access to a few ratty pieces of equipment that are of zero use to you, or anyone. And now it's a piano stopping you from moving on!

Meaning this as kindly as possible OP, you seem very keen on asking for help, and people are uniformly giving you very similar advice every time, but each time you make excuses as to why you can't possibly do anything different, or latch the problem them onto something slightly different each time.
The advice you get every time is essentially the same for every thread, and from every commenter, yet you can't/won't take any of it? Every potential avenue towards a solution that someone suggests, gets rebuffed with an excuse. If so, why even ask?

Honestly, I felt really sorry for you last time, in the thread about the messy kitchen, leeching "friend" and the horse yard thing. I remember leaving you a couple of long replies, and truly, I've thought of you quite a number of times since then, wondering how you're doing.

And to see that nothing has changed, and indeed has seemingly deteriorated, really implies a You Problem, rather than a Them problem.
I'm sorry for you, I truly am, but you've made this bed through your inaction, when it could have been over and long-solved a year ago.

The (male) friend is very vey long-standing. From 1996 when I brought my horse to live on their farm, in a village were he and his family had lived all thier lives. We still had horses together when his father sold the farm after his mother died and we both washed up in this area, where weboth do not fit for different reasons. The friendship is indeed quite odd and probably somehwhat co-dependent, and yes, causes some issues for methat I have already posted about. An d not yet figured out. But I am not "caring" for him.

And I am NOT dismissing or rejecting advice (quote me wher I have....) and am very grateful for interest and support. I am probably phrasing things wrongly or answering incorrectly.

I think in the case of the phone call, you had to be there.....
She flung herself through the door in her dressing gown (having been out walking in the cold, as I have said earlier) and thrust the phone at me while her SW was on it. I do intend to follow this up with the SW, to prevent it happening again, not because there is some way I want to involve myself, apart from to get help to, or her the help, to get her off my back.

With the College thing, I was trying to prevent future requests by pre-empting more help being needed (being efficient, I like to think). What she does is manipulate a situation by getting you so agree to help her at some future point, be it tomorrow or further down the line. I do the best I can to avoid that by getting it over and done with, if I am asked if I can help. I just do not want to be the tenth person who turn her down.

The authorities - and her damn parents - seem to be becoming more and more hands off, which is why she goes to DefCon One by callng the Police out for herself and making threats to harm herself. Even when she is taken away for the night (which happened on NYE for God's sake), she is brought back and behaves as though nothing happened, while everyone else is worried and/or had a broken night. I personally have NOT told them they need to do more (and yet providing the support that they "should" - how on Earth could I?) - but I shall be doing next week.

There’s a lot of information above about her finances, her involvement with Social Workers, her boyfriend and her life in general. You shouldn’t have to know all this and the bottom line is that you need to stop being involved. Whatever goes on with her is none of your business unless it warrants a 999 call in which case call and let them deal with it. And the reason that it’s none of your business is because this woman’s life is not your responsibility.

Don’t get involved, don’t pick up the details, don’t engage with her. Just…don’t.

I know it’s hard - I’ve been there with people who started relying on me and I felt I should step up because of the life advantages I had compared to them. But they took advantage, as this woman is taking of you and you need to stop making this YOUR problem. If you don’t stop making this your problem because you’re “too nice” or whatever, then you can’t be surprised when things don’t get any better. It’s up to you.

You just have to be blunt and go n/c that's what I had to do with an overbearing neighbour/friend.

@zingally
It's sort of unfair to say that I am dismissing the advice. I really don't know why you say that. I am listening to it - but I can hardly take action right this second. It is nall very avluable and appreciated.

I AM stuck, in this awful Groundhog Day, it seems. It is very hard for me to escape this situation, even without the added complication of NDN. But if I did have the chance to, the piano wouldn't stop me, and you maybe misinterpreted what I have said about the piano. That is certainly not a barrier to escape, but many other things are.
And I know it is mddening to read that I haven't managed to get away, so all I do is moan about it.....
I do not have any real humans to turn to, that's one of the problems. Let alone the bigger picture.

I don't know if it was your intention but, just so you do know, the "ratty horse stuff" you mention has made me want to cry. I am stupid and sentimental. Especially about the long dead horse, that is 100% a fact.

Whilst I understand the logic that you are trying to stop her future dependence on you by contacting the college etc. this approach isn't working is it?
In doing this sort of thing you are actually sending the opposite message. You are demonstrating to her that you want to be involved and helpful but not necessarily in the way she asked. You are demonstrating to the college that she has someone looking out for her already.
Effectively, you are getting more involved instead of less. If you took a harder line she would have to do these things for herself or the authorities would have to help her more. You are trying to be kind, but you are getting in the way of the help she actually needs.

Read back your answers on this thread LoveMyPiano. All of them lengthy excuses / explanations about why you're doing what you're doing.
It's worth considering to what extent you are the cause of much of the drama and problems and potentially enabling her behaviour rather than offering any solutions.
It appears that you're over involved and refusing to take responsibility for your actions. What need in you is she fulfilling ask yourself? Because until you understand why you're behaving in this way, you stand no chance of understanding anyone else.

None if this nonsense ever happens tome. I'd have said 'no' many moons ago.

If you never say no it will just continue ad infinitum. What is it going to take for you to stop facilitating her?

You are stuck on groundhog day because you are volunteering for this drama.

Leiple have to you over and over - stop ngaging, stop letting her in the door, stop doing things for her or getting involved with her SW etc. Yet you don't. THAT is where you are dismissing advice. People who have successfully got out of these situations are telling you how they did it (even while still living next door) and you ignore them because you clearly think you know better. Re read your posts, which are often just long excuses justifying yourself.

Next time she turns up at your friend's house waving her phone, cold, in a dressing gown, whatever....don't let her in
Tell her through the closed door she needs to go home and leave it at that. Stop engaging.

You are trying to be kind, but you are getting in the way of the help she actually needs.

This in spades.

OP there is a 2 letter word in the English language - it starts with 'N'.

Saying “no” isn’t being UNkind.

Refusing to engage isn’t being UNkind.

in many ways, continuing to do what you are doing and not changing anything is actually unkind because you allow both of these people to perpetuate deeply damaging cycles of behaviour and prevent them getting to the point where they will receive appropriate intervention from people who are qualified to do so.

You’ve asked here more than once for advice that is essentially the same regardless of the scenario.

It’s only you who can choose to take it.

OP you are very similar to your neighbour. You say she won't listen to you/take your advice/do anything differently- can you see you are exactly the same?

I know someone me like you - drama follows them around because they have no boundaries and are a chronic people pleaser.

It's not normal - whatever issues from the past that cause the behaviour. People on here are getting frustrated because many of us would never be in this situation in the first place. We don't have a false idea of what being "kind" or "nice" is and we do not get involved in other peoples drama because we know it 1. Doesn't help that person and 2. Would damage our mental health.

So us all giving you advice is a bit pointless. Because, like your neighbour, you won't take it.

What if I tell you that your behaviour is neither "nice" or "kind"?

You are enabling a sick person in the same way as if you were buying drugs for an addict.

If you want to be nice and kind - back off, butt out and had this over to SS/police.

If you put 10% of the effort into contacting and chasing SS repeatedly via all possible channels as you do posting here/worrying about the situation you'd have a solution.

I know I sound unkind/not nice but perhaps you need to hear it.

OP, you seem to be involved with 2 people who aren't good for you in one way or another. You seem intrinsically linked.

For,your own sake, please seek help to extricate yourself from both. Find your own life to enjoy.

With the woman, decide on boundaries that you want her to keep to. Then, you need to keep to them too. It's no good saying she shouldn't come to yours, then opening the door when she does.

With the man, do you go round to his every day for food and to play your piano? Do you enjoy his company? Do you think he takes advantage of your need to play your piano, or do you think you are taking advantage of him for allowing you do to so? Who pays for the food? Why doesn't he ever come to yours? Is there anything (eg sex) expected of either of you?

Is there a Mencap local to you? Perhaps give them a call to explain how you've got entangled with the woman and ask for help in handling the situation. I know for a fact that if they were providing support to her, they'd be laying down clear boundaries which they'd expect her to respect for her own good ie future relationships, friendships, professional boundaries etc.

I'm sorry if I upset you with the reference to the horse stuff. That wasn't my intention. I was more trying (perhaps clumsily) to illustrate a point that you always (certainly unintentionally) have a reason/excuse why you've continued to engage with this NDN (and the male friend - but that's a whole other thread, I know), and have not managed to act on the very consistent advice you've gotten, both on this thread, and your others.

You said in your reply to me that you "can hardly take action this second." And whilst that is true, why didn't you take the advice given, at least twice previously - say, yesterday? Last week? February? Before Christmas? Last time you posted?

I seem to remember from the previous thread (see, it stayed with me), that when others suggested you look at getting some therapy, you couldn't because your doctor wouldn't take you seriously. Commenters said get a new doctor. Have you actioned that advice?

You also discussed struggling to feed yourself and male friend with a single slow cooker/pressure cooker (I can't remember which), but there was another available in a box, that just needed a space clearing for it. Have you actioned that?

It was suggested that you distance yourself from male friend (which you wanted at the time), by returning the key to the horse yard. Have you done that?

Meant as kindly as I humanly can OP... I'm guessing the answers to all the above are a variation of "no, but..."

Do you see where people are coming from? You must surely see that every single commenter is giving you a variation of "say no", but you don't/can't/won't.

I do truly wish you the best, and I'm sure all the other commenters do as well. But you've got to take responsibility for you, and make whatever changes need making in order for you to be happy. Umpteen people have all said the same thing, and unless you are genuinely hearing us, nothing will change.

I voted YABU because it is unreasonable for you to reinforce & facilitate her behaviour, and it is unreasonable for you to find holes in every piece of advice again & again. You say you're kind, but it's not kind to carry on like this. Do you have some unmet mental health needs of your own? You cannot 'fix' this person, it's not your job, but you can and you should formally record your concerns to relevant statutory bodies (sw) and then literally close the door and walk away.

Please also look in to getting some counselling for yourself to work on boundaries. You deserve to be happy, calm and content in life. I am sorry for the stern tone I've taken but you really must take action now!

If she engages you going to or from your home " sorry can't stop I'm busy"
If she screams, causes a scene or phones the police or whatever.
Not your problem.
If she comes around while at your other friends.
Ignore.
If she causes a scene. Not your problem.
Do not engage in any of it. At all.
It's not your problem.

I think you are well meaning but you really are not doing yourself or either neighbour any favours .
Both these people are not your problem and by ‘helping’ them you are increasing both their and your own problems
you are not equipped with the specialist training that is required for this girls complex needs yet you are inhibiting her accessing the real help she requires by blundering in with the help you are giving her
please for everyone’s sake back away and leave her to get proper help
when she asks you for anything say NO firmly, tell her she must talk to her SW not you and leave it at that .
You are saying in your op that she just talks at you and won’t listen yet reading down this thread it seems very much that is what you are doing here , you are coming up with an excuse not to follow any of the suggestions of a way forwards , you too need to listen and follow some of the excellent advise given

Well you can’t change what she does but you can change how you respond. If you don’t start saying “No” or ignoring her then you will just have to put up with it 🤷‍♀️

Put yourself first for a change, you don’t owe her anything. So what if she screams, bangs the door or calls the police? Let them deal with her.

Only you can resolve this!

Thnk you all SO much for appreciated and welcome advice. None of which is ognored, nor disregarded. All taken on board.

I realise that my replies are "lengthy". They are not intended as excuses, but are trying to show more of a picture, or about what I think , for what that matters.

I don't, by now, think I can answer anything else, because it will probably seem like more of the same. No doubt, I am creating as many problems as I am trying to solve - and as I am the common denominator, it must all be down to me.

Being despondent won't change anything. As others have said, and I firmly believe, you may well actually be stopping her from getting the level of help she needs from authorities who are Not You. Things are so stretched at the moment that if it is felt a family member/neighbour/whoever will pick up the slack, they will be left to do so. As others have also said, you really are choosing to do all this, whether you want to face that or not. Sorry, but that is the truth as I see it.

I read your previous thread. I thought you were being very nice and supportive to this woman who obviously has loads of personal issues going on for herself. The social worker has no right to sound bored with you. She is getting paid to work a night shift helping people. Yes ring in office hours and try to speak to someone senior in the department. Social services are so under funded at the moment they are probably delighted that you are helping this person so much so that they don't have to step up. I don't like the sounds of the cold foster family budgeting for her either. They may be getting money for supporting her. Maybe if they are giving her lifts etc. they are more helpful than you think. You sound very nice but don't give more than you have. You can't pour from an empty cup. At 9.40 eating my tea I would open the window to say I am just eating my tea and then shut the window again. Don't bring her in for a rant. Good Luck with this. It sounds very difficult an you are very nice and supportive.

Have you considered getting some help for yourself? Maybe some counselling in how to set boundaries and not be used by other people? You seem to have got into a mindset where being kind and helpful consists of letting people do whatever they want with you. The guilt over saying no suggest this too.

My impression from reading your posts here is that you are still looking for a way to make this all their problem and if only they would do x/y then everything would be okay, while you will continue on just the way you have been. That isn't going to happen. How they behave is not something that you control and it is working for them - they are getting the attention from you that they want. The only thing you can control if your own behaviour. If you really want to change the situation, then you need to work on that, with professional help if needed.

I am despondent though. Because of the situation/s, and also because I feel a bit misunderstood.

She has been or connected to "the system" all her life, but because she wants to live independently, most agencies have backed off, until she reels them in in some way - obviously most recently by having a baby and having the baby taken away from her/them. Official support and intervention seems to be minimal, except when she kicks off dramatically (can be as much as three times or more in a week, but sometimes a few weeks go by without police involvement - as far as I know....) - but I AM NOT trying to make up for that..... I was just being a friend (sort of) and by her own admission, if she is given an inch, she takes a mile.

I don't think my "help" is the cause of lack of input from SS etc, and nor do I think my not "helping" would mean that they stepped up again. It is unfair of posters on here to say that, as I do little to nothing that is official (College was a one-off, and I told them that she needed help from them, not me). I have all of her stuff dumped on me like emptying a waste paper basket of her thoughts. One reason I do take it on board is because the phrase "Don't tell me your problems, I've got problems of my own" - as much as I am feeling it, is an absolute trigger to me, and I refuse to be a person who says that, wrongly or rightly.

I wish with all my heart, that I could move away (and did have a plan, that turned out be a pipe dream....) and let my friend especially be free of me and how I probably screw up his life. It is just not very easy - never would be for someone like me, but more so in the light of the current state of the economy.

I cannot keep ("over-")explaining when, even though I have asked for the help of MNers, I am being met with The Power of The Plural terminology, which I struggle with.
This is, however, a "good" kick up the backside, so that's something.

What a sad situation for her as she clearly isn't coping but sad also for you because I can tell you do genuinely care for her. She definitely needs assessing capacity/mental health wise and having some kind of supported living.