To not feel sorry for Amber Heard even in light of evidence

[Wheresmywoolyjumpers]

I always loved Johnny Depp. Was really wanting to take his side, but the evidence being presented is making that impossible for me. But as much as I want to support women, I cannot warm to Amber Heard. is it patriarchal brainwashing? Is it that they both seem spoiled and behaving badly? Or something else?

She is a victim of violence. I 100% believe that. Whether I like her or not is irrelevant.

I've followed both trials and read all the court transcripts etc.

I don't think JD is a narcissist. He clearly has addiction, drug and alcohol issues but narcissism isn't one of them.

AH is a narcissist and she now believes her own story about JD being physically abusive to her. She's dug herself a hole and can't get out.

I believe they were verbally abusive to each other, but despite the covert videos and audio recordings AH made, she has nothing that proves physical violence. Why is that?

The texts with Paul Bettany about AH being a witch were reference to a Monty Python sketch, they've said that.

My take on it is that it’s a sadly typical, mutually abusive, toxic relationship between two people with substance issues which is played out unfortunately every day in every town, but this pair have a huge amount of money and fame and it’s being played out in the public gaze as a result. It’s not nice is it. But people genuinely live like this, for years too.

Are you referring to his finger? During his cross examination yesterday it was proved over and over again that he admitted (both through messages and recorded audio) to doing it himself. And then writing messages with the blood.

Now there is evidence of an email JD sent to Elton John calling vanessa paradis an "extortionist french c*nt" and saying she was trying to poison his kids against him and Amber

She's on tape saying nobody would believe you about her abusing him.
And she's right.

She took the divorce settlement and kept it.
You know the money she promised to a charity.

If you watch her in court especially the first day,she has her blusher done like a bruise.

I pity that poor child she's adopted.

@Waxonwaxoff0 I've never said he's not been violent. I have said he won't win the case. I don't think anyone could sort through this mess and come away with the udea there was no domestic abuse. I think he'd have been better off accusing her of DA rather than suing her for defamation.

They're both actors. He will have rehearsed his testimony with his lawyers.

Here's an interesting timeline of what Amber has accused him of:

ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/123158880.html

They are both damaged people with childhood histories of abuse and trauma. Johnny married his mother - abusive, manipulative, cruel, suicidal. But instead of being a powerless child he was now an adult with power, addiction, and anger issues. Damaged people together often create very unhealthy dynamics. That is why it is so important to get children out of abusive homes and to get them help to deal with the trauma. Kids need to learn what normal / non abusive and healthy relationships look like. None of Johnny's ex's report any violence - likely when he was paired with someone who was healthier, he was able to cope and manage. Amber was probably similar - but put two damaged people together, neither of whom seem to have done the work as adults to address their trauma and you get unhealthy toxic relationships.

This probably sums it up. Some people do bring out the worst in each other.

She shat in his bed

She's awful. I believed her to begin with but I don't anymore. She admits hitting him in tapes. She filmed him repeatedly and tried to goad him while she filmed. She's a social climber who had Johnny Depp as her stepping stone on her way to Elon Musk. She's as calculating as they come.

the records of Johnny depp texts saying he wants to burn her and then fuck her corpse suggests he is not innocent in the relationship. They sound to be both abusive towards each other and themselves

@jamoncrumpets - again I think the point of my OP is missed here. @BonnesVacances , I was thinking about the texts about Vanessa Paradis, which are pretty unpleasant. @Midlifemusings , I think you are 100% spot on. With other people, they may have both been ok.

I don't know why people are 'Oh dearing' the poster who wrote baiting the drunk bear comments. Do you mean she is victim blaming? I don't know if AH was baiting JD or not. I don't know enough to reach a conclusion.

But if you have been physically hurt by a man then you generally, as a result, change your behaviour to avoid the consequences of what you have experienced with angry, drunk men. I did everything to avoid antagonising my exH - even though me just being alive antagonised him in the end. Even now if there are drunk, loud, aggressive men in a bar, out on the street or at a friends house I go nowhere near them and leave. I couldn't film them, stranger, friend or partner. I just couldn't. In my eyes it would be lethal to do that as I'd rather not poke the bear. There is nothing wrong with stating that is there? I am not saying women should have to change their behaviour (I know about the passive voice etc.) but in reality we do. And I will continue to do it until society has sorted out VAWAG. Shaming someone for saying it doesn't take away from the fact that filming someone being aggressive, banging and smashing things in a kitchen would only escalate things for yourself if caught? Or am I missing something?

I don't know anything about her or who she is other than hearing her name associated with his but he comes across fucking terribly when giving his evidence

They're both disgusting, she has admitted to her abuse, he isn't admitting to anything, even if he was physically abusive to her there is proof that he was abusive in other ways. They were a toxic relationship that is clear, but because people 'aren't warming to her' they seem to be basically saying she's completely lying, which of course she could be, but I don't think anyone will ever know really.

He doesn't have to prove anything. In a defamation case the burden of proof is on the defendant. She has to prove she told the truth and if she can't he wins

Totally agree. Together they are on a road towards mutual self destruction. The dynamic between the two is so toxic.

The only saving grace in this is that they seem to have turned it towards themselves rather than outwardly onto others

They both created an extremely toxic relationship which wasn't healthy for either of them.
They need to get their heads banged together and pack it in.
People who get back at each other using never ending court proceedings loose a ton of money and nobody wins. They need to come to an out of court arrangement where they stop slagging each other off in public and just get on with their lives.
My ex husband was extremely litigious and when he lost the 5 year case that after several hearings I didn't bother to attend any more he lost his house and all the money he had.
Now 30 years later he is kicking himself for being so stupid and his son has nothing but contempt for him.

There are many psyshological reasons why women don't leave abusive men, oy.

because people 'aren't warming to her' they seem to be basically saying she's completely lying

No, that is not what I am saying at all.

@ForeverLooking You don't think smashing things up constitutes as abusive?
You probably haven't ever lived on edges of your nerves, walking on eggshells trying not to upset the one smashing doors, crockery, windows, phones etc It's rarely too long before the one walking on eggshells becomes the next thing to smash up.
Be very aware that there are a lot of abusers that hate women championing JD and hating AH.
I do actually remember reading once that he was violent towards VP but that seems to have been scrubbed from the internet now. Not sure why she stuck up for him because he treated her like dirt. He also described her as a 'French extortionist cunt' but yeah, he used to be hot so it's all ok now.

The texts are a bit of a red herring to me..... I think a lot of people send dramatic, ranty texts bringing death and destruction. I know I have. But ive yet to crush a man nuts and feed them to him, chop off anyones head and parade it through the streets, or piss on anyones grave for that matter. I don't think it's that outside the norm. And I don't think because it's a man doing it in the face of who knows what it makes him an abuser.

Regarding the trial I'm keeping an open mind. He must have real proof and probably his own dialogue of texts from Amber heard which will come out when it's her turn to be interviewed to have taken it this far.

From what I understood, it was supposed to be split equally between the DV charity - and a children's cancer hospital in LA (might be wrong about it being a cancer hospital, though). The hospital actually wrote to her saying "er... we've not received your publically offered donation...?!".

I was watching a clip of her reacting to Depp's evidence/testimony last night, and she looked devastated. I don't know what went on behind close doors, and I do suspect that each is as vile as the other - but that look on her face isn't one she could portray without genuinely feeling it. She's not rated as an actress.

Also, it seems to be mostly men slamming her. "Well, we saw no evidence of bruising on her face/Johnny is lovely/she was rude to me on a flight when I approached her and told her that Johnny really cared for her!" sort of nonsense (I probably would have been rude as well had an employee of my husband's felt the need to interfere/insert himself in something he knew nothing about, too, if I'm being honest!).

They need to both grow up and leave each other alone, imo. After this, neither will ever be taken seriously again - so who is destroying whom?