To not feel sorry for Amber Heard even in light of evidence

[Wheresmywoolyjumpers]

I always loved Johnny Depp. Was really wanting to take his side, but the evidence being presented is making that impossible for me. But as much as I want to support women, I cannot warm to Amber Heard. is it patriarchal brainwashing? Is it that they both seem spoiled and behaving badly? Or something else?

@TheKeatingFive

No, you missed the point. The judge was dismissive of what Johnny said about Amber abusing him because it really wasn't relevant to the defamation case (about whether or not he abused her) and she didn't look into Amber's stories with a fine tooth comb because again it didn't matter - all she had to do was feel there was sufficient evidence that at some point Johnny had physically assaulted Amber. This case wasn't about guilt or innocence of each event. It wasn't a criminal case. The judge was only looking at it through the lens of the defamation case. She completely ignored inconsistencies and other details - because they didn't matter for this particular case.

And American judges are really not some impartial, infallable beings. Watch a few youtube videos of judges acting badly. You will see that the idea that a judge said it means it must be true - doesn't hold up at all. The judges role in a civicl defamation case is to determine whether or not the legal definition of defamation has been met. It isn't to determine guilt or innocence.

The judges role in a civicl defamation case is to determine whether or not the legal definition of defamation has been met. It isn't to determine guilt or innocence.

Quite. Where have I said otherwise?

The U.K. case was about whether the press was allowed to call him a wifebeater. It was ruled that that was accurate, not defamation.

This case is about whether she's defaming him in calling herself a victim of domestic abuse.

but the case is him suing her for implying he abused her.

I'm well aware of what the case is about. What he says though is obviously relevant otherwise he wouldn't be permitted to bring it up.

I expect she will win the case if her evidence proves that her Op Ed piece was accurate. However, that doesn't mean she is not also an abuser herself.

I will wait until I have heard everything to decide whether they are as bad as each other (I expect they are) and whether I have good reason for calling them both domestic abusers.

However, that doesn't mean she is not also an abuser herself

no and no one ever said it did mean that, so I'm not sure the point you're making.

Both cases thus far are about whether it is accurate to describe Depp as an abuser (wife beater)/Heard as the abused.

Thats what needs to be determined. Or has already been determined in the U.K.

Thats what needs to be determined. Or has already been determined in the U.K.

So am I right in thinking from your posts you have already made your mind up?

You don't seem to be reading that poster's posts properly.

The poster said it has already been determined in the UK - they clearly mean that the civil case her established there were over 10 incidents of domestic abuse against Amber Heard by Johnny Depp therefore he could not claim damages for being labelled a 'wife bearer' by The Sun. That's a fact, it was the outcome of the civil case.

The poster also said the case in the states currently is based on whether Johnny Depp committed domestic abuse against Amber Heard. Again, it's a fact that that is the basis of the case.

He's good friends with Marilyn Manson who has a history of abusive behaviour and he also said "Roman(Polanski) is not a predator. He's 75 or 76 years old. He has got two beautiful kids, he has got a wife that he has been with for a long long time." For those who don't know, Roman Polanski raped a 13 year old girl and has admitted to it, not even denied it.

If people are starting to look back at his character over the years and it's affecting his reputation now, he's not helped himself with the company he keeps and the people he praises, has he?

Absolutely

I don't see how he can win this defamation case. He has to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that her statements are false, yet key evidence from him either corroborates her version of events or establishes that an event of physical contact did happen and it is a matter of perspective / interpretation. It is not defamation if it is opinion and she may have interpreted the physical contact as assault.

e.g.

• Depp agreed that physical contact was made between their heads, though he asserts it was accidental while she asserts he headbutted her. He was recorded reiterating her wording to describe the event. How can a preponderance of the evidence prove she lied? It's ambiguous and a matter of opinion.

• On the private jet, Depp's personal assistant testified that an event did occur where Depp kicked his foot at Heard's back. The assistant testified he didn't believe contact was made during the UK trial. However, the assistant texted Heard at that time that "he kicked you" and "it was disgusting". The assistant claims Depp told him to say whatever to calm Heard down so he naturally decided to tell her yep he definitely physically assaulted you and it was disgusting and he cried, but I made that all up! How does a preponderance of the evidence show she was lying about being physically assaulted?

• The is a recording of Depp that is a bit ambiguous but he either stated that he cut his own finger off or that his finger was cut off while arguing with Heard. There would be no need to cover up her assault while speaking to her. There is also a text from him to his private doctor that he cut his own finger off. Sure he could be covering for her abuse there, but for the fact that he stated he told his private doctor the truth that Heard did it. How does a preponderance of the evidence demonstrate she was lying?

And for it to not be a lie, it doesn't need to be entirely true. It just needs to be substantially true. The fact that she pointed to a makeup palette that didn't exist at the time of their relationship as being the one she used to cover up his abuse is funny but it's not material to her claims. You can say someone stole item X when in fact they stole item Y, and as long as they are about equivalent in value, it would be hard to prove defamation because regardless they are a thief.

How exactly can he win this case? I feel that people get fixated on the details and miss the big picture.

My arm chair diagnosis is unless medical evidence backs him up and something extraordinary comes out he will loose this case however...

It will also show very clearly that abuse didn't go one way.
On any of the public tapes she never says" I hit you to stop you attacking me, or When you hit me I hit you back" etc.

It's all about her wanting too fight and him running away.

No denying he sounds like a jekle and Hyde character and need's lot's of help.
She was younger And took on far too much

The sad thing is I think he's still madly in love with her.

Funny I thought the opposite

In one clip Heard tells Depp: 'I didn't punch you. I'm sorry I didn't hit you across the face in a proper slap. I was hitting you, it was not punching you.'
Depp says: 'Don't tell what it feels like to be punched.'
Heard replies: 'You've been in a lot of fights, you've been around a long time. You didn't get punched. You got hit. I'm sorry I hit you like this, I didn't punch you. I did not fucking deck you. I fucking was hitting you. I don't know what the motion of my actual hand was. You're fine. I did not hurt you, I did not punch you, I was hitting you. I'm not sitting here bitching about.
'You're a fucking baby,' Heard said.
Shouting, Heard continues: 'You are such a baby! Grow the fuck up Johnny'.

Im certainly not on JDs side but having listened to the testimony of their couples counselor and coupled with that bit of conversation means Im not on AHs side anymore either, toxicity never ends well for any party involved

Sorry this was a few pages ago, but I wholeheartedly agree:

I also dislike the view (on here too), that when you stop being scared of your abuser, you stop being a victim. I goaded a man with an axe to my neck to kill me because I was sick of his shit; I was still a victim despite not being scared.

I very rarely felt scared of my ex. I’d seen it all before and worse from my dad. What I’ve since learnt was that I was dissociating and I was cutting off my emotions completely until one day I ended up having a breakdown. When he choked me once all I felt was vaguely amused at his stupid facial expression. When I see him now I don’t feel afraid of him either. One thing I’m learning is none of this stuff is logical or makes any sense, to outsiders especially, but also when you’re going through it. Which is why it’s so easy to convince ourselves that it didn’t happen or we’re overreacting.

I think that both of them are abusive and awful and that drink and drugs made a lot of things escalate way more than they should’ve done. I personally feel that Johnny might’ve instigated the abuse and Amber retaliated. But that’s probably me being biased because he was older, richer, more powerful and a man. So glad I’m not the judge with these 2 dickheads.

Sorry for the long post, but I personally think even if the judge rules against him, Depp will be back making films in no time. Look around; even Bill Fucking Cosby is out of prison.

Anyone watching Dr Shannon curry give her evidence? Basically diagnosed her with personality borderline disorder. Her comments are very interesting.

The main issue with all the threads about this is that most people commenting have no experience of a truly dysfunctional,toxic relationship.

We tend to look for a villain, we tend to try to (if not actually) sympathise with the victim. Rationalise it, find a reason why and ultimately still come to the same basic victim/villain scenario.

The trouble is, in toxic relationships both partners are usually both at one time or another. Controlling, abusive, goady, sneery, demeaning. Controlled, abused, demeaned,afraid,hurt.All the while telling themselves that they're passionate and love makes them do crazy things.

There's no just victim here. There's no just abuser. The insistence to see everything black and white,label them either victim or abuser, it's all based on a false premise and not the reality of a toxic relationship.

Do I believe he abused her? Yes. There is no doubt in my mind.
Do I believe she abused him? Yes. There is no doubt in my mind.

Do I believe they have also been victims? Also yes. That is the part I can very easily sympathise with. Two very damaged people ,with addiction and mental health issues came together and absolutely imploded to a horrifying level just adding to their own trauma and issues. Apart,they might ok or even nice people, together they ruined each other in more ways than one. I can feel sorry for them because of that, while still acknowledging they have been abusive and the other.

There's no clear goodie or baddy in this shitshow of a relationship and I think a lot of people struggle with that.

AH attorney seems to be struggling with Dr Curry

I think he’s obsessed with her. Whether that’s expressed through love or hate is by the by really.

They are definitely struggling! She gave a really strong testimony.

Very strong and competent in her testimony but, I feel, unnecessarily evasive on cross. Presumably other psych/therapist notes/opinions were known to her, but her perfect recall evaporated on any off-message points. The defence are clearly laying groundwork for a different interpretion of diagnostic scores. As you'd expect.

I'm not a fan of Johnny Depp. I don't like his movies. And even when he was sober, he always looked a bit dirty. I didn't know who Amber Heard was until these lawsuits.

The more I listen to the testimony of them both, the more I dislike the pair of them. Creating all this disgusting mess wherever they go that they expect each other people to clean up, including bodily fluids and excrement. The consistent name calling and hitting.

I get that Depp lost his case in the UK because the judge was only interested in the actions of Depp towards Heard, but as all this goes on, I do have sympathy for him. It's not that I think he hasn't abused her in some way but he must feel so frustrated that they're both spouse beaters but only he feels the vilification of it. I can see why that would be galling to him. Although I think he'd have been better to sue her for persistent assault rather than defamation, I think.

His poor children being put through this shit show. Literally!

Exactly like he said during his testamony he's already lost and his reputation as already been ruined regardless of this outcome but I guess he was his side heard. She definitely sounded like she has personality order disorder I'm not sure about depp though. I thought the doctor conducted herself really well. Ut like you said she did seem to lose her recall when it suited.

There's all this shit about Johnny Depp being heard. It doesn't take a court case to be heard. He was free to write an op-ed, I'm sure a lot of publications would be knocking down his door to get his point of view across. Instead, he has gone for court case after court case. His interest is in ruining her in the way that, he sees it, she has ruined him. The sad fact is - depending on your view of Johnny Depp - he has ruined himself. In all of this, it doesn't matter if she was a nice person or not. If she was also an abuser or not. Was she a victim of domestic abuse? All of the evidence that has been put before judges says that yes she was. Whether he was or not, is not what either court case has been about.

I've been reading what Shannon Curry has to say about borderline personality disorder and if all of what she said was actually true then I'd be the sort of person who would assault her for saying it. As it isn't true, I'm just the sort of person to be rather upset about her misrepresentation of what someone with BPD is like. I've recently been diagnosed and was horrified because of all the negative stuff I'd heard about BPD. Understandable given that BPD is very much stigmatised. The truth is that we are far more likely to hurt ourselves than others. The fact is that it is not typical at all for people with BPD to be assaultive partners nor to seek revenge against a partner. In fact, the majority of what she said is utter bullshit. I won't pretend that someone with BPD couldn't possibly be abusive but it's not typical of us. At all. It's hard enough being diagnosed with something like this and then to see such gobshite being said by someone who is a doctor ... yeah, thanks for that Shannon Curry.

@ApertureGLaDOS
The top of his finger was severed. The finger is on his dominant hand, which suggests it would be difficult for him to cut it off.
His Dr.was called and had to sedate AH. At that time he gave a series of different accounts to various people about how it was cut off. If you consider him to be a victim of dv that covering up would be typical.
However, there is a tape of the time following the accident and his staff plainly held AH responsible. The Dr gave her something to calm her down and she was then flown back to LA under the supervision of the house manager, to whom she said 'haven't you ever just got so mad you just lost it?' He later wrote texts about how annoyed he was that he had covered up for her.