Oh do piss off, Harry

[HettySunshine]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/20/prince-harry-says-queen-on-great-form-during-visit?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

The Queen has coped for most of her life without you. I don't think she needs you 'protecting her' now.

I'm usually entire ambivalent to the royals but this has really bruised my cherry!

AIBU?

@Butfirstcoffees - your 4th paragraph - exactly.
I also question a man who has a suicidal pregnant wife, yet makes her dress up and go out to the Albert Hall rather than getting her immediate help and support. They had a (very expensive) maternity package at the Portland, access to advice from a healthcare professional at any time. He couldn't have called a dr or midwife? I was at the Portland - the consultant phoned me at home, one of the midwife team was always available, a counsellor was available. That's what you pay for! He was negligent in this instance, imo.

That’s so interesting @Butfirstcoffees. It never occurred to me that he might be gaslighting her but it makes perfect sense. It certainly explains his shifty look when he was asked about the racist comment in the Oprah interview. You’ve thrown a completely new light on it.

I think Angelina Jolie is rightly seen as an asset to the UN.

Her work is informed and boundless. She is excellent in her role. Can you explain why you believe this not to be the case?
How do you believe the UN have ever shown their displeasure around Ms Jolie’s work?

For me this commentary is absolutely hatstand. It makes literally zero sense. Ms Jolie is lauded worldwide as excellent in her role for the UN and her work on behalf of displaced people, her work with refugees and her role speaking for those who have faced sexual violence.
She even lectured at LSE in this regard.

I agree. It's a terrible shame but Harry just can't seem to shut up and stop goading his family. I suspect once the Queen dies he'll be completely isolated, maybe before depending on the book details.

Coffees point about Harry gaslighting Meighan is an interesting one, and puts a different spin on things. He's certainly the one publicly taking pot shots at his family but I can't believe she thought that the garden rehearsal was the actual wedding - she's not some starry eyed teenager. I don't think she's innocent in all this mess, but I do think Harry was desperate to get married and seems like he was looking for a fight with his family. Nobody gets into the sort of mess he's in now without a lot of effort.

I reckon some of the less extreme ones are also on MN.

That's a twist. Most of the narrative is Meghan has changed Harry for the worse.

"she's not some starry eyed teenager. I don't think she's innocent in all this mess, "
Yes - she is all about baiting the imbecile, then standing back a distance and watching the shit show unfold. She is no genius and in terms of feminism a complete hypocrite but she's certainly smart enough to play him. There was never an internal division between blood royals during the Queen's reign before this. Often, people will claim that it is about bigger issues like Racism to win mass sympathy when their real discontentment is centered on matters of vanity and comparison which would sound pettier to use as a justification. There is no law against lying (as she has also amply demonstrated).

She wanted to be regarded as a perfect Disney Princess, the public opinion was more realistic, she never gained the instant popularity she demanded at the outset, failed to pull off the dress code and consistently abide by the protocols. Unlike Kate, she failed in the Service she had agreed to undertake and her idea of ripping up the job description to suit her was scoffed at, much to her annoyance.

It never became a problem over time due to the tabloids. All this was a problem from day one and the tabloids were being briefed to hold back for over a year out of respect for the family until it became impossible.

Well that's a very well known trope isn't it? The dominant wife, the henpecked husband? Usually used by families to explain why a son or grandson isn't toeing the line as the family want and expect. I got a lot of it from my in-laws and it hurt. Eventually I just replied with "I bloody wish I could get him to do what I want, please tell me how!" Which at least diffused the situation a bit.

'It's a terrible shame but Harry just can't seem to shut up and stop goading his family. I suspect once the Queen dies he'll be completely isolated, maybe before depending on the book details.'

I agree, think PC and PW are keeping quiet out of respect for the Queen who tbh seems as deluded as H if she think this will ever be resolved amicably, once she is gone I doubt they will tiptoe around his crap. They need to stop allowing H to meet TQ and sell his arrogant opinions to the highest bidder. All under the guise of promoting the IG, just so inappropriate and tone deaf.

I think that's the go to sterotype though. Evil manipulative woman who turns a good man bad.

My opinion that its him the manipulator has been the one I have had since they did that interview. So many things that were said just didn't add up. Like her being shocked he would have to bow to the Queen and not knowing until they were on their way. I believe, that's because he probably tried to project an image that, behind closed doors, they were just a normal family. Surely if you are dating a Prince one if the questions must be 'what's it like being related to the Queen'.

Either they are both liars or it makes more sense that he took the lead and isolated her to a degree and took control of what information she had available to her. Then only told her things when it was advantageous to him.

I think people assume its her, because so many of us remember Harry as the young child behind his mother's coffin. Then the cheeky 'party Prince' and the 'lovable rogue Squaddie'. We gave him some room to make mistakes (like repeated racisim) and moved on from them because of how we viewed him. Generally, people loved and felt sorry for him. The Spare, with constant rumours about his parentage, whose mum died and he was forced to mourn publicly and be on parade with her coffin.

Those things have influenced how we have judged him the past. I am the same age as William and I cried my heart out when I saw them both walking. I remember vividly. I felt so sorry for them both and remember thinking more kindly about them in subsequent years. Before that, they were entirely irrelevant to me, as I was a teen and they weren't important to me.

So now many people see him as the victim and her as the one causing problem. However, he was the one that had a lifetime of experience in the royal family, protocol, expectations etc He knew what titles his children would get. He was the one with the power. She was the one coming in from the outside with little knowledge and she relied on him.

I may be wrong. But so much of that interview was such rubbish, I just don't get why they expected people to believe all of it. I think he is arrogant enough to think people will just accept anything he says, she believes his narrative is the absolute truth.

Though I do believe she made some bits up herself, probably, to strengthen their narrative that he is a victim.

I think Angelina Jolie is rightly seen as an asset to the UN.

Her work is informed and boundless. She is excellent in her role. Can you explain why you believe this not to be the case?
How do you believe the UN have ever shown their displeasure around Ms Jolie’s work?

For me this commentary is absolutely hatstand. It makes literally zero sense. Ms Jolie is lauded worldwide as excellent in her role for the UN and her work on behalf of displaced people, her work with refugees and her role speaking for those who have faced sexual violence.
She even lectured at LSE in this regard.

And works with Sophie Wessex in this - a Royal involvement that unfortunately gets only the most cursory press attention.

Come off it, lol.

Despite his obvious flaws and limitations, he was (and still is) a young, decent looking Prince and therefore eligible. It seems totally absurd that he would need to resort to desperate measures of duping an older, divorced, unknown actress.
He could have had his pick from many younger, prettier aristocratic girls who shared his culture and values and with the requisite personal and social skills to assume the role. I won't say smarter because he is not smart enough to be compatible with anything much smarter than Meghan (and she isn't particularly smart).
It is awfully strange that suddenly, his family were the devils all along and this country was also a problem but only AFTER she had persuaded him that it was all true. And what about the fact that it is consistent with how she has behaved towards her own family in the past?
Most people aren't brainwashed enough to recognise it for what it is.

The fact that it is taboo to criticize her for absolutely anything at all, for fear of being accused of being a vile racist has aided her more than anything.

She has an upper hand in chucking around strong accusations but it becomes painfully awkward to reply back. Every six months or so, she dishes it out to keep her sjw stans fired up and ready to defend her. It is actually deplorable.

Yes, they love playing timing games which is so unlike the Royal Family who have barely nodded to the existence of social media. It is known that she was already working on those PR manipulation skills during her brief success on Suits. It's basically a whole load of fluff, half truths, breezy soundbites, drama which does not really compensate for a lack of character, virtue and stability.

Its quite funny to see the Sussex squad and Stans flood the tread in groups at the same time and in the early hours of the morning. Honestly they are fanatical, Megan spend most of her life putting white on her CV`s and race never became an issue until she bagged harry. its a lame way to shut down discussion, and even more lame when the target of your attacks is an old woman and an institution you know will not even fight back.

Never mind Harry claiming to be unable to help, despite the vast resources available to them and his own known counselling experience

And one of his mother’s closest friends, who just happens to be a therapist, reported in the engagement interview to love Meghan. All he needed to do was dial her number.

@RonaldMcDonald

Also Harry has no horse in the race between Charles and William. Perhaps he can offer insight and support to HMQ on things which might concern her re Charles and William and the future Monarchy. Perhaps he holds insight on the Charles William relationship that can help her.

I know the Red Tops currently have us believing that William loves Camilla and Charles but I see no sign of it. ( Same with Harry )

William may also behave very differently once he has the vast fortune of the Duchy under his control. Charles is able to agree or curtail William’s spending and movements at the moment. That all changes upon the death of HMQ.
I am unsure William particularly wants to wait until middle age to become King. With the right Press pressure will the British Public?

The reason Harry was able to meet HMQ without the world knowing was that either William or Charles did not know about the meeting before it took place.
If Harry met Charles - big if. The suggestion then is that leaks are coming from staff briefing the press on behalf of William.
If Harry met neither, the suggestion is that neither they, nor their staff, are to be trusted with information.
It is very unpleasant.
There were prior suggestions that it was palace courtiers leaking information regarding Harry - this visit shows that HMQ’s staff are discreet when she wishes them to be.
This is why the news of the visit was leaked.

When Harry wished to have a mixed role outside the Royal Rota - ‘Mexit’ - these conversations were taking place and progressing secretly until Charles insisted they were put in writing.
Once in writing they were immediately leaked to Dan Wooton.
Speeding and cementing the process and allowing the Press to shape the narrative - largely it was in favour of stolid William who could no longer hold up his feckless brother.

This lack of security of information, deliberate leaking, demonstrates an impact on Royal Protection too.

As someone with usually only a passing interest in the royals, this sort of analysis draws me in.

It's like the royals & ruling families of centuries ago, jostling for power and influence, only with insta instead of malsmsey wine, jousting and child marriage.

I usually conclude that they deserve each other.

Between you, you know the grand total of nothing and have created page after page of fiction. Excellent work. 🕵️‍♀️

@EdithWeston yes agreed and great point. I’ve never really understood why she doesn’t receive more support and publicity for the work she does backing the BG and UN in these objectives.

I’m unsure if they needed sign off, as it were, to hire a counsellor or therapist.
Part of the wider explanation that they, whilst a family, are also a firm.
Given the mess left behind by Diana’s more shady support mechanisms I would expect there to be strict rules.
This hiring would have required extensive vetting and it wasn’t green lighted - apparently. An in-patient stay would have likely been easier.

His mother’s friend being a therapist makes little odds. She may have been able to recommend someone but then the vetting etc would have still have needed to take place.

This all sounded like nonsense to me. If my partner was facing suicidal ideation or indeed simply not coping I would have demanded they get the support they needed and if it was not agreed to be provided I would have arranged support myself, as an emergency action.
Ditto taking them to hospital.
But, I am not a Royal and I can have no understanding of the processes they feel they must have agreement around before acting.

I think it is unsafe to put quotation marks around anyone’s claims to be suicidal. If someone states they need or have needed help with their mental health I have no reason to do anything other believe them and encourage they get the support they need.

Without commenting on the specific people being discussed on this thread (as I certainly feel l don’t know enough about these individuals and also am not in any way qualified to make a judgment) & in reference to your last paragraph: whilst it is important that anyone asking for help with their mental health is support and encouraged to get the help they need, is it not also recognised that threat of suicide can also be used as part of abusive cohesive control?

I do find it odd that the same pp spend all day every day for days on end posting about a subject that has already passed, and immediately jump on every post that expresses even the merest hint of discontent with the Sussexes.

It is very strange why anyone would care THAT much about two people they have never met, will never met and have no idea what is truly going on. Why are some so so so invested.

arcu Is spot on threatening suicide can be considered a form of cohesive control, and would be very triggering for someone like Harry who lost his mother at such a young age.

I do find it odd that the same pp spend all day every day for days on end posting about a subject that has already passed, and immediately jump on every post that expresses even the merest hint of discontent with the Sussexes.

It is very strange why anyone would care THAT much about two people they have never met, will never met and have no idea what is truly going on. Why are some so so so invested.

This 100 times. And change to a more responsible news source that reports on more important issues.