Oh do piss off, Harry

[HettySunshine]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/20/prince-harry-says-queen-on-great-form-during-visit?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

The Queen has coped for most of her life without you. I don't think she needs you 'protecting her' now.

I'm usually entire ambivalent to the royals but this has really bruised my cherry!

AIBU?

It genuinely bothers people that Black people can be their equals and indeed even more successful on their own terms i.e. not kowtowing to the white gaze. And frankly those of you with mixed families who like to fantasise about what the babies will look like are also terrible. I'm also mixed race and thank goodness my mother was the black parent.

I’m going back to real life now, where hardly anyone talks about the Royal Family

They were today - all over the place, what with it being the actual birthday.

Mumsnet is very different to real life isn’t it?

No, the contrary. It's a reminder of how endogamous our family and friends ten to be, and one of the great values of a site such as this is to show things from beyond our own self-selected silo

The Royal Family are not racist? Honestly there is a cognitive dissonance here that is astounding.

Seeing Prince Harry dress in a Nazi uniform as ‘fancy dress’ or use racial slurs suggests loudly that the privileged environment he was raised in was also very much a racist one. Prince Harry thought that was okay for him to do so.
When he grew up, he learned these varied types of racism he had been steeped in weren’t okay. Eventually he married a black woman and although I’m sure he had hoped for better behaviour from his family it is clear that he didn’t receive it.

some examples - there are maaannnyyy

Prince Philip multiple instances of racism

HMQ has never spoken of or acknowledged the monarchy’s role in slavery and the pain colonial rule has caused. No apology has been given. No reparations. No jewellery, as a basic obvious contrition, for instance has been returned.
There have been racist hiring principles at play in the Royal Household
“it was not, in fact, the practice to appoint coloured immigrants or foreigners' to clerical roles in the royal household, although they were permitted to work as domestic servants,” until 1968. No apologies ever made.
Then the Queen moved to ‘Queen’s Consent’ to sidestep employment laws others in the land must use.

The Queen Mother used racist slurs about Japanese people and against black people and had very worrying views about Jewish people.

Do you remember the photograph of the Queen Mother, future Queen etc doing Nazi salutes? Why do we not talk about that often or Edward’s cosying up to Hitler ( blamed again on the wife )

Jacqui Smith said Prince Andrew was racist about Arab peoples and used the N word.

Princess Michael of Kent - she’s a barrel of racism - from two black sheep named Venus and Serena to wearing a Blackamoor brooch when first meeting the Duchess of Sussex - to advising Americans to go back to the colonies.

So stop trying to shame Harry - he probably feels shame enough. Certainly he apologised enough.
The others certainly haven’t

I don't agree. Although some will be, and those people who feel that way are reprehensible, I don't think all the irritation about Meghan is to do with being divorced (however many times the truth is, once that we know of), biracial or American. I think much of the annoyance about Meghan is how people perceive her character.

Kate Middleton came in for a lot of flak about being lazy, told to get a job, get a life, stop hanging around for a man. There will always be something.

i think it was a very quick and meaningless comment which has been blown up into a ridiculous set of assumptions about harry. He said he wanted to make sure she’s protected. I think that was about how the meeting was Covid secure. He said he wanted to make sure she had the right people around her. Which was after a long line of talk about how he makes her laugh. So he meant he wants to be one of the ones keeping her spirits up.

Aside from the fact that (IME at least) that’s total crap - and actually I think H&M could murder puppies and people would blame Charles. You have to consider the William and Kate are very inoffensive, pedestrian rather boring people who plod along ruffling very few feathers. Whereas even fans can’t deny Harry and Meghan tend to speak out, do interviews, have digs and quite forcefully slag his family off. they are always going to be divisive when they behave like that whereas it’s hard to form strong opinions about 2 people who basically do and say nothing of note outside their usual duties.

I don’t understand why people are so bothered. How does it affect any of us? Queenie is 96, nearing the end of her life so Charlie boy & Camilla will take over. We’ll get a couple of days off work, life will go on.

Googles endogamous

Perhaps your right, maybe I should stop caring about anything in life that does not affect me like poverty, lack of housing, how any one acts in life like racists as it does not affect me personally after all my life will go on or may be I open my mind and use a forums to discuss current issues and actually have an opinion on current affairs. 🙄

Like others have said, everyone was happy for H&M at the beginning. I don’t recall, except from a few misogynistic gutter press articles about her past, that there was much more criticism, and certainly no more than ‘Waitie Katie’ received for years.

When they got engaged, I was overjoyed for Harry. Until then I did remember him as the tiny boy who walked behind his mum’s coffin and I felt he deserved happiness. They had great chemistry at the engagement interview, much more of a romantic chemistry than William and Kate. They were clearly besotted with each other and it was lovely to see.

I thought she was great - she’s a staunch feminist, and clearly very smart and I thought the RF needed a bit of a shake up in terms of their sameness. I know we are supposed to think Kate is a commoner but let’s not kid ourselves, she’s every bit as Jolly Hockey Sticks as her husband.

I also loved every second of H&M’s wedding. I loved that they went a little off script and brought her culture into the ceremony. So refreshing from usual stoic Christian services. Then they seemed to hit the ground running. They were very popular, despite what some here might say.

Re the Africa tour when she said “No one has asked me if I’m ok yet”. I do not agree that this was inappropriate, as is the popular view. She was only a few months post-partum and, like most women, probably only ever had people qual on about the baby, as long as baby is ok etc. postnatal care the world over is beyond shitty and women are treated worse than dirt. I feel that she related to this, and it seemed sincere when she said this. I actually thought ‘good for you for not putting on a lie’. And as the Spare not the Heir, Harry (and by association his wife) has more liberties to make faux pas than his brother - we can all get over it quickly when they aren’t going to be the monarch. But I do remember thinking that on that tour Meghan, for the first time, looked very unhappy.

When they ‘stepped back’ and went to Canada I thought ‘who can blame them’. I thought they will never truly be left alone but the pressure will massively be off. I think most people thought this.

Then came the passive aggressive digs, the interviews in which they lied, embellished and plain old shat all over Harry’s family, knowing how much this would rock the whole institution. They play to an American audience, knowing most Americans probably think the RF are just a bit like the Kardashians. They played and into the Hollywood-style perception of Harry’s family being the baddies. They became utterly bitter, self-serving and constantly goading whilst the RF have sat and said little more than ‘recollections May vary’. Yet H&M persist in making public attacks. They have whines about security and press intrusion yet elect yo live in a very unsafe country where press have more freedom to intrude than the British press.

I don’t know what the fuck happened, if this is the true them and they were just well managed, or if it’s a strop because they didn’t get the titles/privileges/whatever. But for a couple so popular with so many people rooting for them, their reputation with the British public has hit rock bottom, and I’m amazed that anyone can blame anybody but the couple themselves

@PlasticineMeg

Like others have said, everyone was happy for H&M at the beginning. I don’t recall, except from a few misogynistic gutter press articles about her past, that there was much more criticism, and certainly no more than ‘Waitie Katie’ received for years.

When they got engaged, I was overjoyed for Harry. Until then I did remember him as the tiny boy who walked behind his mum’s coffin and I felt he deserved happiness. They had great chemistry at the engagement interview, much more of a romantic chemistry than William and Kate. They were clearly besotted with each other and it was lovely to see.

I thought she was great - she’s a staunch feminist, and clearly very smart and I thought the RF needed a bit of a shake up in terms of their sameness. I know we are supposed to think Kate is a commoner but let’s not kid ourselves, she’s every bit as Jolly Hockey Sticks as her husband.

I also loved every second of H&M’s wedding. I loved that they went a little off script and brought her culture into the ceremony. So refreshing from usual stoic Christian services. Then they seemed to hit the ground running. They were very popular, despite what some here might say.

Re the Africa tour when she said “No one has asked me if I’m ok yet”. I do not agree that this was inappropriate, as is the popular view. She was only a few months post-partum and, like most women, probably only ever had people qual on about the baby, as long as baby is ok etc. postnatal care the world over is beyond shitty and women are treated worse than dirt. I feel that she related to this, and it seemed sincere when she said this. I actually thought ‘good for you for not putting on a lie’. And as the Spare not the Heir, Harry (and by association his wife) has more liberties to make faux pas than his brother - we can all get over it quickly when they aren’t going to be the monarch. But I do remember thinking that on that tour Meghan, for the first time, looked very unhappy.

When they ‘stepped back’ and went to Canada I thought ‘who can blame them’. I thought they will never truly be left alone but the pressure will massively be off. I think most people thought this.

Then came the passive aggressive digs, the interviews in which they lied, embellished and plain old shat all over Harry’s family, knowing how much this would rock the whole institution. They play to an American audience, knowing most Americans probably think the RF are just a bit like the Kardashians. They played and into the Hollywood-style perception of Harry’s family being the baddies. They became utterly bitter, self-serving and constantly goading whilst the RF have sat and said little more than ‘recollections May vary’. Yet H&M persist in making public attacks. They have whines about security and press intrusion yet elect yo live in a very unsafe country where press have more freedom to intrude than the British press.

I don’t know what the fuck happened, if this is the true them and they were just well managed, or if it’s a strop because they didn’t get the titles/privileges/whatever. But for a couple so popular with so many people rooting for them, their reputation with the British public has hit rock bottom, and I’m amazed that anyone can blame anybody but the couple themselves

I'm completely perplexed by the whole affair. They had Everything! I imagine the life of a working Royal has constraints, rules and red tape like any other professional role. It must have been tedious.

I can't believe how they have courted the press since they left the Royal role. I like the be Royals overall and greatly respect the Queen. I think Harry will look back on this time in his life with sadness, as I still think he lacks maturity and judgment.

I think they should quietly go back to their new media lives and leave the UK out of their press propaganda

@shade78

i think it was a very quick and meaningless comment which has been blown up into a ridiculous set of assumptions about harry. He said he wanted to make sure she’s protected. I think that was about how the meeting was Covid secure. He said he wanted to make sure she had the right people around her. Which was after a long line of talk about how he makes her laugh. So he meant he wants to be one of the ones keeping her spirits up.

I disagree every word that comes out his mouth would be scripted for effect. He is not a naive child, he is a man of a privileged world.

Or he is incredibly stupido ....

My children are mixed race. My husband is Israeli, and in all my pregnancies our families pondered on what colour skin the baby would have. It’s not racist, it’s just what you say and what you wonder. Not all of us are bogged down in the fear of being racist by pointing out that some people have darker skin than others and mixed race babies will have a certain colour skin. I do believe the RF would have done the same, I am highly dubious that it was spoken under the tone of ‘concern’

I actually think this reflects the way my perceptions developed over time too. I was really looking forwards to Megan ‘shaking up the monarchy’ at the beginning, but the way their lives have turned out seems so far from that. Mind you, I wasn’t expecting the hideous racism of the press either so I can imagine that effecting both of them a little (I say, ok, maybe alot!)… but it’s a shame they’ve become so far from both of their potential roles.

I think it all went wrong for them after the wedding because their heads were filled with “you’re superstars!”, “you’re a breath of fresh air, so modern, radicalizing the monarchy!”, “what an excellent move Harry, she’s just what we needed to bring the Firm into the 21st century!”. The men in grey suits saw Eg Will and Kate’s latest Caribbean tour fiasco and already knew Meghan Markle could have been the perfect solution and will undoubtedly have gone out of their way to manoeuvre her into position, easing her path insofar as it could be. But the couple had bigger ambitions. They saw people fawning over them, the press couldn’t get enough of them, Oprah was courting them, Netflix was already after them. Meghan had experience with showbiz and PR and publicity for commercial ends, and she’d long wanted the high life Hollywood-style. This was her moment; she’d finally ARRIVED! Harry would not have wanted his star eclipsed by his brother when clearly he was doing more for the country than boring, humdrum Wills and Kate. Forget his dad and That Woman, their time was already over, the world had moved on long ago. He also already wanted out of the manacles of The Firm, to live a different life (remember Africa?). Where was their kudos, they will have asked themselves? Why are they getting second rate treatment? Fuck this for a barrel of laughs, we’re out of here. Or rather, half out, half still in cos this is my family and well, we’re Royal and nobody has a monopoly on royalty. All the privacy and quiet life claims, camera-clicking triggering, press hatred, media intrusion, all that no doubt existed but it was just grist to the mill. As they now say, they always wanted this Angelina Jolie-style do-gooding Monarchy 2.0, and they’re doing it for the rest of their lives. You can just imagine the emoting and egging on and earnest, heartfelt yearning to heal the world and make it a better place chat that would have gone on over dinners and drinks, on beaches and in Soho House rooms, and the planning and true heady “we can do it!”.

And here they are. They’ve hitched their wagons to parasites who will bleed them dry, make more money out of them than both of them put together plus their children will ever gain from having left family and tradition behind and made an enemy of the British royal family. They’ve sold out. Are still selling out. I think Harry does derive some benefit from initiatives like IG. Just like we all do, when we volunteer our time and money and energy for altruistic purposes. It’s human nature. It makes us feel better about ourselves and gives us perspective and value. Meghan Markle, I’m not convinced about and I don’t really care enough about to form a meaningful opinion.

As a Republican the whole thing is a disgrace. But I’m interested in the dynamics of how British society moves: politics, media, monarchy, the public. Who holds power over whom, how they wield it, what their motives are. Harry and Meghan are pawns, here today and gone tomorrow. Royal fodder. The real questions far eclipse their trifles and their pretender status. It’s fascinating watching all this unfold, also disquieting.

@PlasticineMeg the precise reason for Prince Harry and the Duchess of Sussex to ask to step back from full time Royal duties, into a blended role of service and private life, was to cease being British Public Figures.
This cessation would then allow them to escape or at best at least challenge the lies written about them, multiple times daily, by ‘Royal experts’ and escape the endless cruelty and scrutiny of the Royal Rota.
Had the Sussexes been allowed to step back, they would have been allowed to become private citizens with rights to privacy and quiet enjoyment of their lives. Details of their lives would no longer have been in the public interest or seen to be constitutionally of merit. This would have halted the Press in their tracks.

Saying they face worse press in the US or greater press intrusion is nonsense.

We don’t even have a photograph of their children yet. They live as private citizens except when they wish to do something public. They finally have the right to a private life where they decide when to dip in or out of the spotlight.

Neo-Nazi and extremist groups have made credible threats against their lives in the U.K. . Not, as far as I am aware, in the US.
Nevertheless In the US their security teams are armed and they are treated well by US govt in terms of VVIP status to share information on risk.

In the U.K. where threats are made against the Sussex family, and seemingly there are many information leaks from some of the Households - VVIP security is no longer extended to them. Their privately paid guards are unarmed and not briefed re risk.
Prince Harry’s JR of this situation has been rumbling on since September before being leaked by the Fail in January.

All in all, it would seem the US allows them to enjoy greater privacy from press invasion and better security than they can enjoy in the U.K.

Gutter press in the US seems to find it harder to hold people in the way it does in the U.K.and their constitution quotes privacy as a tenet.

@givethatbabyaname
the weirdest thing about that storybook narrative isn’t the lack of any substance. It’s that you also see the excellent work of UN humanitarian Angelina Jolie as problematic

But I believe expressing ‘concern’ over the colour of a child’s skin is racist. Being worried what the public might think isn’t ok, anyone that thinks anything other than ‘aw, lovely baby’ regardless of skin colour really shouldn’t be prioritised or thought of as important. If people don’t like it, fuck them, racist cunts.

Yep.

& depicting Archie as a monkey, or are racist cunts going to explain that away as well?

What will they say 'oh it was inly a joke?'

The racism on MN makes my skin crawl. I imagine racists come on here to express their ugly racism, then say good morning to their Black neighbour or colleague next day.

Repulsive in their hypocrisy

Agreed.
An ‘English Rose’ with all those connotations were expected.
Instead they got a bright feminist who had lived a life, had a series of jobs and made a small fortune doing so in her own right.
She didn’t need to smile and nod like a Dolly - she was a real woman. She was also of course a black or biracial woman depending on how she identifies.

I think losing the Sussexes was another nail in the coffin for the BRF.
I don’t believe William will be able to steer the ship alone - he has zero charisma. They keep Kate like a perfect silent dolly and that is a bloody crime too.

Maybe it is time post HMQ to become a Republic

@DeeCeeCherry 👏

The one that Meghan said took place 3 days before what people thought was in the actual wedding on the Saturday b

Oh please. Whose star do you think has been burnished more in the Angelina Jolie - UN relationship? Hers, or the UN’s?

There is no believing the sordid depths to which some celebrities and people in associated industries stoop. Life would be just peachy if one could take the likes of Angelina Jolie at face value. Bless you. May your eyes remain forever closed to such things.

That was Danny Baker being totally out of order and completely stupid, and rightly vilified. All these years of monkey chants at football matches, throwing bananas on the pitch - the monkey noises still go on - and he does something as rotten as that.

This actually really bothered me. I believe that Meghan believe this happened. I believe that she was led to believe it happened while she was heavily pregnant.

It really bothered me, that if it happened how he said it happened, that he waited to tell her until after they were married, pregnant and (according to them) suffering with suicidal thoughts.

If my (now ex) H failed to mention that some people in the immediate circle were racist and hid these conversations from until then, I wouldn't have ever forgiven him. I would feel manipulated by him. I would have had the right to know.

I do think it's impressive that someone who has white privilege, rich privilege, titled privilege, male privilege and celebrity privilege has managed to make himself appear as a marginalised victim. While, manipulating his mixed race wife.

I don't believe that Meghan is a bad person or manipulative. I do believe, he has misled her and alot of the inconsistencies in the Oprah interview were down to him not being fully open and honest with her. I think its entirely plausible, that she was nervous about the wedding and wished they had done something more private so he told her that rehearsal 3 days could be their proper wedding. Then the Royal wedding would just be a show. Fake and make believe. But that he had managed to make their actual wedding private and intimate. She was unlikey to know that she couldn't be married in a garden with no witnesses. Though I do think her saying what she said in the interview was a dig at the British public. It felt like, to me, she was saying 'you all thought you were part of our special day. You all thought you were celebrating with us but it was a lie. A show. And you all fell for it'

I loved the Royal wedding. My mixed race daughter was so excited at the time. Now as an adult she thinks he is ridiculous. She still likes Meghan, though feels a little sad for her.

Perhaps your right, maybe I should stop caring about anything in life that does not affect me like poverty, lack of housing, how any one acts in life like racists as it does not affect me personally after all my life will go on or may be I open my mind and use a forums to discuss current issues and actually have an opinion on current affairs. 🙄

@profilehopper this thread is hardly comparable to a discussion on the subjects mentioned with the exception of racism. The amount of people that feel so strongly about H&M staggers me. There just a young couple with kids, extremely privileged as are W&K. Unless I’m missing something. I like the Royal family and the history of it all but that’s it. But I suppose we’ll all be long gone when the historians sink their teeth into this and some sort of truth will be known. I just hope that they don’t look to the Daily Fail for their research.