It’s a boundary one!

[Toomuchtooyoung01]

Moved house 3 months ago. Next door neighbours seem fine, however about a month ago the lady collared me as I was setting off on the school run to ask about popping into the front garden to access something. I had my 2yr old kicking off as standard and was quite distracted so (also wanting to be an amenable neighbour) said yes fine and set off on my way. A week or so later, I came home to find her sitting on my driveway weeding. Before I had a chance to ask what she was doing, my 4yr old innocently asked why she was sitting in our garden to which she replied “well this bit is actually my garden” 😳
I asked what she meant and she began waffling about how the boundary goes beyond the fence they erected and this strip of land is actually hers, she just hasn’t been able to access the garden to weed it for some time. Confused and again distracted by the kids, I went inside and relayed the conversation to OH who was NOT happy, especially after getting the title deeds out which shows the boundary line as being in line with the brickwork of our garage. Since viewing the property, a single bit of fencing has been erected attached to our garage, and a wire fence has been added by next door which is in line with this. Where she was weeding and where she claims is her land is on the other side of this (in our garden).
Yesterday, without asking if they could come into the garden to do so, they have now put down weed matting along this strip.
OH is raging, mainly at me for allowing them to come into the garden the first time when they asked to and for not setting them straight when they began weeding etc, he has said I have to sort this with them and tell them clearly they have to remove the matting and that we recognise the boundary as being where the title deeds depict it and that as a fence has been put in line with that prior to us moving in, they cannot now change the narrative to “actually that strip of land on the other side of the fence is ours and always has been”, despite the title deeds showing the boundary to be in line with the brickwork of my garage and the fence being in line with this too.
I HATE confrontation, even when I’m in the right feel guilty and uncomfortable like I’m doing something terribly wrong in asserting myself or opposing something, and usually end up getting shouted down and back down.
Dreading this conversation. Has everything I’ve said made sense? Have they got a leg to stand on if I say take the matting away and stay on your side of the fence? Am I about to make a dick of myself and an enemy in my new neighbours?

We had this exact problem when we moved into our previous place. CF upstairs neighbours appeared in our front garden “weeding.” We had a horrible weekend thinking that we had bought our flat under some huge misunderstanding but as soon as we had spoken to our solicitor, showed them the deeds etc they backed down. IMO they knew all along and were just hoping we’d go along with it. CFs then said they were so disappointed not to have any access to a garden would we would grant them “gardening rights” and allow them to erect massive bike shed in our front garden, needless to say we declined.

This has to be nipped in the bud - either clarify with your conveyancing solicitor and get a letter to that effect or tell them in no uncertain terms that’s it’s your land, the deeds show this and that you will be contacting your solicitor so that there is no doubt going forward. Personally I would go the first route and there can be no misunderstanding. Might also be worth contacting vendors. Could be neighbours massively trying it on as ours did.

It’s a horrible situation. I feel for you OP.

I would get in touch with your solicitor who did the conveyance. It will cost you but it will hopefully get it sorted. Your neighbour is obsessed with the kerb stone boundary and isn’t listening to you. A solicitors letter stating the boundary and warning him not to enter your property without express permission is needed here. And don’t worry about falling out with them…. You don’t need CF’s in your life…. If they think you are nice they will be relentless. If they know you will stand up to them, they will leave you alone.
Get a solicitor appointment asap

Husband needs to help. Assuming you both own the property you both need to work together or you will both end up losing part of your property and dealing with stress which you can nip in the bud now. Picture these 2 stealing the value of the land in wads of money as this seems to be what is occurring. Nip this in the bud. Be firm. Be polite. Be assertive. Wait till neighbours are out/asleep and give them their mats back and put something on the disputed land of your own asap, with a degree of permanence which cannot be easily moved eg farm machinery / concrete block/s. At the same time write to the neighbours / ask solicitor to write to them and declare that the land forms part of your own freehold and that if they wish to challenge this then then you will expect them to undertake to pay all associated costs with the matter including legal and surveyors costs. Your strategy here is to let them prove (legally) that its their land and not the other way around! If they cant prove it then they can go weed on their own land! Right now you might want to check through the replies to enquiries from your solicitor, if there was a dispute previously then this absolutely should have been declared. Double check the conveyance plan also. RICS has a free helpline scheme- look on the website. Also try and figure out why they want the land. Is it to widen their drive? Enable further development on their plot..or are they just batshit. Good luck.

"take over responsibility" noooooooo that suggests you are not certain you own it. same with "irrespective of who it technically belongs to"

Agree with others who say you should address this right away.

No need to be belligerent. There is a remote possibility that there is a conflict between your documentation and hers. You could offer to sit down with her and compare conveyance docs.

Your conveyance docs will also tell you what your responsibility is for main of the fence. Note that your doc only tells you what you are responsible for, not what she is responsible for! To see what she is responsible for you need to see her conveyance doc. It can be a mess. My doc has the neighbor responsible while his shows it as joint!

if you want to get her conveyance doc, it’s available from the land registry office for a nominal fee, probably less than 10£.

Agree. This is insane!

But I don’t think she is certain she owns it. And boundary disputes are notoriously difficult to resolve, and unless handled very carefully can create a really toxic atmosphere between neighbours. Most properties in England don’t have the official legal boundaries recorded anywhere, so the OP is going to struggle if the neighbour wants to dig their heels in. My point is that unless the OP or the neighbour is planning to use the land for something it probably doesn’t matter who owns it, the issue is the practical annoyance of the neighbour sitting on her path weeding.

Sorry that was supposed to be in response to @godmum56

Its going to matter who owns it when either side comes to sell and also if there is ever any kind of insurance claim! I would dispute your claim that most properties in England don't have their boundaries recorded...have you got proof of this?

Most properties don’t have their property boundaries recorded accurately otherwise I wouldn’t have a job……!

Off topic (sorry OP) but @NameInUseAlreadyAgain how did you quote a post that contained a quote? 😮

I’m using the desktop site because my app broken. Usually it won’t let you but for some reason it is!! No idea how??! Wish app would work again tho

When I was at work in the NHS on elderly care, I went to a training day. We were asked what percentage of older people ever needed any kind of residential care as opposed to staying in their own homes until they died. We were all professional experts there and we said 20%.....30%......some went as high as 70%.......the answer was then and still is now around 6%
Anyway my point is that its likely the same with your job.....you only (or mainly) deal with cases where there is a boundary issue so that is what you assume is the majority.....but maybe its not? maybe its because you don't come into contact with all the rest?

What I meant was that property boundaries aren’t recorded ACCURATELY. Your HMLR title plan has the general boundaries rule attached which means go back to original deeds. HMLR plans are based on ordnance surveys maps which have accuracy limitations hence the general boundary stamp. I see countless times people have scaled off HMLR plans and say oooo that 1 metre of land is mine when generally that’s within tolerance. If it’s a straight line then it’s a straight line on the ground but where is that straight line

most people live side by side perfectly happy without even thinking about boundaries. However we are heading for 200 new jobs this year alone and generally have about 400 a year. That’s a lot of disputes over the years we’ve handled not to mention the other companies doing similar to us. Percentage wise disputes are probably low but to assume that property boundaries are correctly identified on the most part is wrong

Ah thank you @NameInUseAlreadyAgain that's interesting..I am also having trouble with the app so may switch to the site to see if it improves.

Sorry again OP I won't derail anymore and I hope the boundary issue is solved soon!

@MiGatoEsBonito I can’t even log in anymore on there

@godmum56 yes, source is the government: www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries.

The red boundary lines shown on land registry title plans are indicative and always come with a disclaimer to that effect.

I’d be more concerned about your husband’s reaction than any nonsense about weeds and kerbs. If this had happened to me, my husband and I would have talked about it and decided how to deal with it. That wouldn’t have included me going to speak to them with a child in tow. Why couldn’t you go without him? Why was your husband raging at you? Does he do that often?

Why would they want a strip of land on your side of the fence? How does it benefit them in any way?

I've unfortunately met these types of chancers before, they are trying their luck. Wonder why the previous house owners moved?!
Don't back down, get the council involved if necessary to confirm the boundary. Are you any further forward?