It’s a boundary one!

[Toomuchtooyoung01]

Moved house 3 months ago. Next door neighbours seem fine, however about a month ago the lady collared me as I was setting off on the school run to ask about popping into the front garden to access something. I had my 2yr old kicking off as standard and was quite distracted so (also wanting to be an amenable neighbour) said yes fine and set off on my way. A week or so later, I came home to find her sitting on my driveway weeding. Before I had a chance to ask what she was doing, my 4yr old innocently asked why she was sitting in our garden to which she replied “well this bit is actually my garden” 😳
I asked what she meant and she began waffling about how the boundary goes beyond the fence they erected and this strip of land is actually hers, she just hasn’t been able to access the garden to weed it for some time. Confused and again distracted by the kids, I went inside and relayed the conversation to OH who was NOT happy, especially after getting the title deeds out which shows the boundary line as being in line with the brickwork of our garage. Since viewing the property, a single bit of fencing has been erected attached to our garage, and a wire fence has been added by next door which is in line with this. Where she was weeding and where she claims is her land is on the other side of this (in our garden).
Yesterday, without asking if they could come into the garden to do so, they have now put down weed matting along this strip.
OH is raging, mainly at me for allowing them to come into the garden the first time when they asked to and for not setting them straight when they began weeding etc, he has said I have to sort this with them and tell them clearly they have to remove the matting and that we recognise the boundary as being where the title deeds depict it and that as a fence has been put in line with that prior to us moving in, they cannot now change the narrative to “actually that strip of land on the other side of the fence is ours and always has been”, despite the title deeds showing the boundary to be in line with the brickwork of my garage and the fence being in line with this too.
I HATE confrontation, even when I’m in the right feel guilty and uncomfortable like I’m doing something terribly wrong in asserting myself or opposing something, and usually end up getting shouted down and back down.
Dreading this conversation. Has everything I’ve said made sense? Have they got a leg to stand on if I say take the matting away and stay on your side of the fence? Am I about to make a dick of myself and an enemy in my new neighbours?

I do think this is on you, not your DH.

Samas if your DH had let neighbours use your yard and playstructures and they took it over as their own and he didn't say anything - I would say that was his issue to fix and not something he should put on you to deal with.

Women are more than capable of having difficult conversations, just like men. We aren't weak little children who can't speak up and need a man to speak for us. Most people don't like conflict but that is part of being an adult and being responsible. This isn't DH dumping his issue on you, this is your issue that you need to take responsibility for.

Most people would be annoyed if spouse gave neighbours access / permission to use their yard. Doesn't make DH a dick anymore than it would make you a bitch if DH gave away the yard and then you got annoyed with that.

Can you contact previous owners of your house and find out if this was an issue when they lived in it?

Who indeed would do that. My neighbour that’s who! She has put a fence up 18” inside her boundary, we have a fence on the boundary. There is now an 18” gap full of weeds, mostly nettles and brambles topping our 6’ fence.

And she’s put another fence 18” away from my friend/neighbour’s boundary, and told them that she would need access to weed there. Their response was to put up a 6’ fence along the boundary. These people are idiots.

I can't visualise the layout, if you could add a diagram and a picture of the deeds it would be helpful.

I’m annoyed that your husband expects you to sort this with a toddler in tow. It’s next to impossible to have these conversations while trying to supervise a child who doesn’t want to be having a boring conversation.

YANBU
However get DH to take on your neighbour. He can vent at her instead of you.

Sounds like you should've called a tow truck instead of dad. 😉

OP, @c3pu gave the best advice: it's up to NDN to prove the boundary different if they want to assert a claim. It's not up to you to go to all the trouble and expense to disprove. In fact, that trouble and expense alone might make them back down. Be polite but don't apologise for anything (e.g. misunderstandings, not paying close enough attention during the school run, DC kicking off, etc.) or you will signal to them that you're a mug and make things harder for yourself. People are far less likely to mess you around if you're no nonsense, on guard, and not embarrassed by their cheekiness.

If you really are so anxious that you want to take on the trouble and costs yourself to disprove, @NameInUseAlreadyAgain and @elbea gave the best advice there.

PP are correct that you should be leaving DC with husband while you sort this out with the NDN. He should be understanding because he knows you were distracted by them the first time.

Your husband is right to make you sort this out yourself, not because it's your fault, but because you need to get used to standing up for your family. Plus, you expressed concerns his temper might make things worse whereas you're more levelheaded. Focus on your annoyance at the trouble, time, marital strife, and headspace being taken up that they have caused you with this farce to not be so apologetic and fearful of offending when confronting them.

Could you show us a photo of the deeds or a diagram showing where your boundary as per deeds is & where the kerb is?

Also, DH sounds like an angry knob.

.

Just get a copy of the title deeds and stand firm if they back up your belief.

I have a neighbour like this, only she claimed she owned part of my garage! She casually slipped into conversation a few months after I moved in that "her solicitor had told her she owned part of my garage block" a previous owner may have done, but 100 years ago, when it was communal loos and stables.
I laughed and said "well I hope you didn't pay him for that advice, I have the deeds from when I purchased the house"
A few months later she stated going on about my front garden. I shut her down instantly.

If i was you, I would go out and remove the illegal fence and matting, return it to them with a very direct letter informing them that it is very clear on the deeds, if they mowed it 20 years ago, it has no bearing, legally you can not claim land. Make it clear a boundary dispute would be extremely expensive but you do have legal cover.

You don't have to be confrontational, just firm and clear. Remove the items pronto, there's less room for argument that way.

I agree though your Dh is a dick.

Which is better, having the grass part unkept just for who's right or having it maintained and looked after ?

This happened to me once. The neighbour used part of my garden for storage and told me it's theirs when I moved in. I had to show them the deeds to force them to move the stuff. Of course they knew full well it was mine. Be firm OP neighbours and confront them.

This all sounds really quite alarming. From your conversations there has obviously been a long-standing boundary dispute with your neighbour and previous owners ‘ she just hasn’t been able to access the garden to weed it for some time.’
I think your actual problem is that your previous owners sold you the house without declaring there was a boundary issue with the neighbour.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that your ND neighbour chose the time to ask ‘permission for access’ when you were ‘distracted’ by your 2 year old - she probs had been looking for such an opportunity.
As someone who lives in a house which we have had a ( now resolved) boundary issue. Do NOT feel guilty for claiming your land back from someone who is trying to steal it.
Do not ask her to remove the matting- remove it yourself without conversation. Then when she approaches you , say you had reviewed your deeds , now knew ownership was yours & you have retracted any permission you previously gave to her for access because of her obvious entitlement for land that isn’t hers.
( with us, a brick wall was built by them on our drive whilst we went on holiday, we arrived back my husband kicked the wall down and put it all on their drive . The police were called , they wanted us for criminal damage. I showed the police deeds - land clearly ours , and requested that I wanted them arrested for trespass . No arrests as boundaries are a civil not criminal matter. This was one of the incidents over nearly 3 years. My advice - nip it in the bud now.

Tell OH to grow a pair and sort her out with a copy of the deeds to hand.

This is really hard for me to visualise without a diagram. Also - how big is this piece of land? Because the line on your title deed is in reality about a foot wide, so the error in the boundary as determined from the plan is quite big. The only real way to solve a boundary dispute is with a boundary surveyor and potentially expensive legal action.

Your DH is being a dick. Most people would've carried on THEN checked the deeds if they were in a hurry. His KNOWING is because he had time to check, then apparently wuss out of confronting anyone but you. He's passing the buck a bit here. Copy of the deeds, a polite "we checked, as you can see its not yours" clear up future confusion here's a copy, we will need you to remove your matting. Thanks. Then give them time to absorb that.

Yeah my thoughts too. If he is so worried he should do it.

If a chat won't sort things out, I do recommend getting a property mediator - much better than going to war over a tiny strip of land and they have a very good success rate with these things. I always feel I wouldn't actually be bothered by that sort of access in itself - except for issues it could create when selling, which is the main reason to get it sorted.

I do find your neighbour's attitude very odd - if I found our boundary was a few inches into our neighbour's house I'd just ignore it.

Tell your husband you explained the matter to the neighbour and he still disagrees. Perhaps also explain how it's rather difficult to have a sensitive conversation with a screaming child hanging off you.

How weird. If the neighbour insists that the boundary is where the "kerb stone" is, and not where the deed says it is, ask him politely to provide legal evidence of that in writing. An old photo of him mowing the grass doesn't qualify as evidence I'm afraid. Can you ask the estate agent who sold you the house what's going on? Or a solicitor?

I hope your husband becomes more co-operative too.

It doesn't make sense to me that front gardens would be designed to overhang the neighbours garage by a few inches. I think maybe someone else in the street tried to claim that at some point (because some people are obsessed with claiming every inch of land that they possibly can) and the other neighbour was a pushover. I bet they have no written proof.

Thanks everyone for your messages and good advice. It’s bloody ridiculous, title plans show the boundary to be in line with the garage, I asked if his title deeds said different and he said no “but these aren’t zoomed in enough” and just kept repeating the kerb is the boundary. Over and over again. It seems obvious that there’s been a dispute about it over the years and presumably if they thought they had a strong case they would have already had all these conversations and got it sorted legally and it would have been done and dusted years before we ever moved in, so I kind of feel the fact they haven’t says everything. It unnerves me how they genuinely seem appalled that we don’t agree. Also find it borderline weirdo behaviour to be so adamant you own a strip of land that sits in front of someone else’s garage, they themselves erected fencing that prevented them from accessing this strip without coming onto our driveway anyway. How does any of this make sense?!
The back garden is a bit of a jungle to put it mildly that we are wading our way through and we can now see after cutting back literally over a metre’s width of bamboo that they also have just trellis in the back garden to serve as fencing? Are they obligated to put up actual fencing?

Has he said why he thinks the curb is the boundary?

They are trying it on because you have just moved in. We had a neighbour who when we showed them the title deeds and plan said they must be wrong because it did not accord with his wishes. He also effectively took a strip of land adjoining our property. We agreed to let it go because there were numerous huge trees on this strip as we did not wish to maintain them. But nor did they and for years no work has been done.

Please do download his deeds. It is £3 and you get them from HM Land Registry straightaway. Once you have these, he cannot argue with you. I think by saying he has maintained the land, ie mowed the lawn or whatever, he is trying to establish ownership via long user or similar.

You are not obligated to put up fencing but in these circumstances I think you need to establish very firm boundaries.