It’s a boundary one!

[Toomuchtooyoung01]

Moved house 3 months ago. Next door neighbours seem fine, however about a month ago the lady collared me as I was setting off on the school run to ask about popping into the front garden to access something. I had my 2yr old kicking off as standard and was quite distracted so (also wanting to be an amenable neighbour) said yes fine and set off on my way. A week or so later, I came home to find her sitting on my driveway weeding. Before I had a chance to ask what she was doing, my 4yr old innocently asked why she was sitting in our garden to which she replied “well this bit is actually my garden” 😳
I asked what she meant and she began waffling about how the boundary goes beyond the fence they erected and this strip of land is actually hers, she just hasn’t been able to access the garden to weed it for some time. Confused and again distracted by the kids, I went inside and relayed the conversation to OH who was NOT happy, especially after getting the title deeds out which shows the boundary line as being in line with the brickwork of our garage. Since viewing the property, a single bit of fencing has been erected attached to our garage, and a wire fence has been added by next door which is in line with this. Where she was weeding and where she claims is her land is on the other side of this (in our garden).
Yesterday, without asking if they could come into the garden to do so, they have now put down weed matting along this strip.
OH is raging, mainly at me for allowing them to come into the garden the first time when they asked to and for not setting them straight when they began weeding etc, he has said I have to sort this with them and tell them clearly they have to remove the matting and that we recognise the boundary as being where the title deeds depict it and that as a fence has been put in line with that prior to us moving in, they cannot now change the narrative to “actually that strip of land on the other side of the fence is ours and always has been”, despite the title deeds showing the boundary to be in line with the brickwork of my garage and the fence being in line with this too.
I HATE confrontation, even when I’m in the right feel guilty and uncomfortable like I’m doing something terribly wrong in asserting myself or opposing something, and usually end up getting shouted down and back down.
Dreading this conversation. Has everything I’ve said made sense? Have they got a leg to stand on if I say take the matting away and stay on your side of the fence? Am I about to make a dick of myself and an enemy in my new neighbours?

Since viewing the property, a single bit of fencing has been erected attached to our garage, and a wire fence has been added by next door which is in line with this. Where she was weeding and where she claims is her land is on the other side of this (in our garden).

You need to talk to your conveyancing solicitor about this.

This happened after you viewed but before you purchased the house? Look at your conveyancing documents. There will be a question about neighbour disputes. What was the previous owner's answer? Either there was a dispute that they didn't declare, or they had ceded this strip to the neighbour and hadn't declared it.

Either way you won't get anywhere by pursuing the previous owner but your solicitor will be able to advise on the boundary of the property they conveyanced and advise on next steps.

Are they obligated to put up actual fencing?
No. All they need to do is mark the boundary. You can erect a fence your side though, as long as it’s in front of the boundary line.

It is very odd behaviour. It’s not as if that extra teeny little bit of land is going to add value to the house, and I imagine if they sold in future most people aren’t going to even want to deal with a random strip of grass in front of someone else’s property. I suspect this is more about control than the land.

Oh yes, let's all be weak little girls and expect a Man to sort out a problem we've created!

I would wait until she's weeded all of it before going round to tell her she's wrong!

If it were me I think I would be more bothered about the neighbour coming on to my property to weed ‘her’ garden rather than the technical issue of who owns a piece of land that’s apparently just filled with weeds anyway. I wouldn’t assume they have bad motives, it honestly sounds like the neighbours genuinely believe that’s their land and they have an obligation to keep it tidy. I’m not sure it’s really worth falling out over. I would just politely explain that you had assumed the fence line was the boundary and suggest that for simplicity you take over responsibility for that piece of land, given that it can only be accessed from your property, and irrespective of who it technically belongs to. Make it clear that if the current situation were to continue you would want them to seek permission each time they need access and that you would expect this to be very occasional - you won’t be routinely granting access via your property. In the meantime, perhaps quietly talk to some of the other neighbours to see if the husband’s explanation holds any water.

No one is obligated to put fencing up or even mark the boundary.

but the front garden sounds like they wanted to take it from previous neighbours and are tsk the opportunity now to do so. Talk to the solicitor who did the sale for you.

As a number of others said, try not to see this as a confrontation. Just pop over with a copy of the deeds and explain they will need to move the matting as it is in fact in your boundary. Smile and ask if they would like some cake and tea

Do you know it was them that put up the boundary marking fence at the front?

I am wondering if it was the sellers of your property, who won the argument about whose land it was and put this up before selling... with neighbours simmering with rage but biding their time.. then you move in and neighbours start it up again, thinking their claim will work on you!

Boundaries should be marked but this can be with a fence, a line of wire, a string, painted line down the flagstones... whatever.

Deeds as some people still don't seem to realise, won't be accurate to the inch!

I'd fence the buggers out with good 6ft solid panels at the back, and whatever is the tallest you are permitted at the front!

The neighbour is weeding on OP's side of the fence. The neighbour would not have placed the fence where it is, they'd have placed it at the edge of what they believe to be their property - not in the middle of it.

OP's seller's must have put it there. Which implies a prior dispute.

This makes no sense. Need a diagram.

Read this today, so hope they don't pursue it www.thetimes.co.uk/article/couple-left-30-000-in-debt-over-boundary-dispute-hzdhr7lw8

TLDR but everyone stops needing to talk about DEEDS you aren’t looking at your deeds you’re looking at your entry on the land registry and the title plan, which is nothing but a snapshot of the current ordnance survey map at the time the property was registered or last sold. If you can get the actual ‘deeds’ fro. Your mortgage provider you might get exact boundary measurements but you might not. A piece of ‘our’ land was ‘given away’ by a previous wonder and it enrages me- the title plan shows the ridiculous boundary line that was adopted after this point but they are to quote Geoffrey Rush ‘more what you’d call guidelines’

Did you even read the OP’s posts?

Unfortunately, boundary disputes are notoriously hard to resolve. My advice is to be firm with them, which it seems the previous neighbor was. Personally, I’d erect my own fence for the back garden. Whenever they put anything on to your land, remove it without damaging it and place it in their garden with a firm and clear this isn’t your land. Don’t enter into discussions or arguments with them, just keep saying “This isn’t your land” like a broken record.

Also, unfortunately, media outlets do often take stories from Mumsnet, so you don’t have to upload a diagram if you don’t want to. It sounds like logically they wouldn’t own the land in front of your garage, so remember “You can’t argue with crazy”

I think you need to battle this one out, however much you want to avoid confrontation.

OP, if you can't resolve this amicably then check your home insurance. We had a similar situation a few years back and realised we have free legal cover on our hone insurance. They helped us draft a letter which shut down our neighbours nonsense straight away.

The key here is for you not to anticipate confrontation. Approach it simply as a fact finding mission.

If your neighbours aren’t listening or agreeing to what you tell them is on the title deeds then it important to tell them that “we need to find out which boundary location is accurate” (said with a smile) so that the sim is to help both families resolve the puzzle. Keep it about “we” rather than “you” and “us”.

You could make enquires from your planning office about boundaries and if your neighbour still is in dispute replay the information from the planners/council. If you make it more official and from a third party without it being threatening or confrontational then they can’t get angry with you as it’s not your opinion but legally binding facts.

Its also worth mentioning that where you believe the boundary to be is where it was described when buying the house so it’s important that it’s established for any future sale of either house ie. for the benefit of both of you.

Just keep focusing on how both houses can benefit from getting help or advice to find out where the boundary lies.

You could make enquires from your planning office about boundaries and if your neighbour still is in dispute replay the information from the planners/council. If you make it more official and from a third party without it being threatening or confrontational then they can’t get angry with you as it’s not your opinion but legally binding facts.

You see, I couldn't be arsed with all this. It has obviously been going on for years. Just deny them access and if they want to waste their time and money on it, they can, but why should the OP put herself out when she obviously has her hands full at the moment? Put the onus on them. It's your land unless they can prove otherwise.

Why are you worried about falling out with them?? Were you bosom buddies before??

At least they asked for access first.

All you need to tell them is that you were distracted, didn't hear her properly and you wouldn't have given her permission if you had. They do not have your permission to enter your garden.

Then it's up to them to prove their rights, if they wish to try.

'You do not have permission to enter our garden' is your stuck record line.

That way you're not even talking about ownership and deeds. You're agreeing with them that they are trespassing on your garden.

OP you need to be less needy on your husband and address the issue. You have inadvertently allowed this situation to evolve, so now go and sort it like a grown adult.

She says, addressing OP like she’s a naughty toddler

Fence the front off,put alocable gate on and prevent them trespassing

Lockable