To have felt irritated by my friend’s children today?

[Chickalick]

Not sure if I’m being unreasonable or not to be be honest.

DH and I (who for context don’t have children) went for lunch today with friends of ours and their two DC. Youngest is 5, eldest is 11.

I just didn’t enjoy it and have come home feeling really frazzled due to their DC’s behaviour. I should probably preface it by saying they weren’t being horrendous but neither of them would stay seated for more than 5 mins at a time, constantly bouncing around on their seats, up and down around the table. Youngest kept ear piercingly shrieking every 5 mins and then giggling as they thought it was hilarious, it was like nails on a chalkboard. Eldest kept shouting when they talked (they have a tendency to do this in general) and it was deafening. Youngest kept stabbing their fork repeatedly into the table and eldest started chucking their chips at the youngest which then encouraged youngest to do the same.

I just felt like it was chaos and could feel the diners next to us getting annoyed. It was the noise, just constant really LOUD shouting instead of talking from the eldest or shrieking and silly wailing noises from the youngest. Youngest constantly wanting to get up and run round the restaurant. Us adults could barely hear each other and I just wanted to eat and get out of there ASAP.

To add, parents did tell them to stop each time they shrieked, started chucking food etc but they would stop for about 30 seconds then start again and I think they got fed up of telling them in the end so just kinda gave up. They whipped out an iPad in the end and gave it to them but then they put some game on with the volume on loud and both started shrieking and baying each other when the other was beating them etc.

We’ve just got home and I said to DH that I just didn’t enjoy the meal and won’t be in a hurry to do it with them again. I said it’s like they were feral and had never been taught to sit at the table and eat. He thinks I’m being unreasonable and said that’s just eating out with children, they’re noisy and hyper and there’s not much you can do.

Is he right?

@saraclara

I'm pretty stunned at the posts here. My kids came out for meals with us from toddler age, and they coped fine, and didn't annoy anyone. This whole business of giving kids iPads during a meal out is just grim. It seems like there are no expectations on kids at all to sit calmly and eat with adults. It really isn't impossible. Obviously you don't go to places with five course meals or slow service, but at 5 and 11, for goodness sake, they should be able to hold it together.

Yep.

It sounds really stressful.
I imagine the parents were mortified.
I've been in that situation myself when mine were younger.
The kids seem to pick up on their parents embarrassment and play up even more to get a reaction.
I've ended up walking out half way through a meal with mine.
The elderly lady on the next table was on the verge of spitting her chips at me, so it was easier just to walk out.

"SEN isn't an excuse not to teach your children anything."

With severe SN there may be shrieking and throwing things and difficulty in keeping the child or adult sitting down. There are different levels of disability.

Yanbu. I have kids and still wouldn't really want to go for a meal with other people's kids. It's boring for the kids and tedious for the adults.

5 and 11?! That’s ridiculous. Sounds like a total nightmare to me. God knows what the other diners thought. Well, most likely their parenting is quite ineffectual and lazy. As well as willing you all to leave. Please don’t say the parents asked them about 5 times not to do something, they got totally ignored and the whole restaurant was sick of the mention of their name. That especially sets my teeth on edge

Yes it's a lot to do with parenting but honestly it's just luck of the draw for what you get with a lot of stuff

I don't think it's just 'luck of the draw'. I honestly believe you get from children what effort you put into them. It's hard, hard work. None of mine who are now 15, 12 and 10 would ever have behaved like the children in the OP. If they did, they would have been removed.

This whole business of giving kids iPads during a meal out is just grim.

Every single family restaurant has colouring stuff to keep kids entertained. What’s the difference? We sometimes used and iPad, sometimes colouring in, sometimes played a game on a notepad. When they are really little and out with adults it is unreasonable to expect them to sit there with little to occupy them. I feel sorry for any kid having to sit there quietly with nothing to do, waiting for dinner to arrive.

My daughter rarely misbehaved in restaurants. Mostly we’d all sit and chat together but when she was getting bored, we kept her busy. If she started playing up, we took her out.

It sounds like relatively normal child behaviour to me. I think it is unreasonable to expect children to sit and be still and not be silly during a boring meal with boring adult conversation. I don't think it's unreasonable to find it too much. I have problems with loud noise. Many a time I go to parties at places with soft play etc and after 30 minutes make my excuses to leave. I dread when my baby is going to want to stay in those places. If you want to get a chance at conversation you are much better off at places with things for the kids to do, take them to a park and have a picnic, take them to a soft play and they'll go off whilst you talk, have a take away/ BBQ/ meal at their house where they have their toys and TV to distract them. Or go late on a night after they are in bed. I find for children to be well behaved at a table meal like that they need to be really included on the conversation and feel like they are part of the experience..as soon as you go off into adult conversation they feel ignored and start messing around.

I regularly see appalling behaviour like that in restaurants. I feel that the parents are often complicit in generating it because they are usually focused on their own dining experience and cannot be bothered to tell them off. The most annoying is when they sprint up and down the restaurant or stop at other tables. My DC never, ever did that at any stage but I suppose that they were trained up since birth in eating out frequently which may not be the case at all for these kids.

5 year old could have been having a bad day but I'd say this isn't typical for the ages. Presuming you weren't there for hours.

This is the exact behaviour my 2 year old presents in a restaurant. He's a lockdown child so still learning & he's still very little.

I'd expect most 5 year olds to get through a meal without too much disruption to other people.

Sure all kids will mess around a little bit and may go off to play but I'd expect parents to chose somewhere child friendly / with a garden or play area or take some activities to keep them busy whilst waiting.

3 kids, ages 2,8 and 9, none of them behave like this in the pub!

It doesn't sound like poor parenting to me though.
It sounds like the kids trying to get the parents attention due to boredom of listening to adult conversation.
The parents were clearly not ignoring the behaviour. They told them to stop each time it happened.
The 11 year old was obviously encouraging the 5 year old and enjoying the reaction from their parents (knowing they were embarrassed by their behaviour).
No doubt the parents felt mortified and would have been fully aware that they were being judged.
I've been on that side of it myself when mine were younger (and yes two of them do have SEN) and I have abandoned the meal and left with them.
While I appreciate it is stressful for other diners (hence why I left with mine) it is also upsetting for the parents.
Mine are all aware of good manners, yet they still had times when they played up. I'm not a perfect parent. I just try my best.

My daughter is 11 and she would absolutely never throw food or shout while eating out. I think these children sound badly behaved imo. I'm not surprised you were annoyed.

It’s depressing how few children are taught to behave in a sensible manner when eating out.

Screeching, running about, being generally silly is something one doesn’t see overseas as much.

It’s just plain bad manners to let children impact on other diners.

Same in pubs!
We have stuck our heads in bars, seen manic kids tearing about, and gone elsewhere.

No one wants to hear other people’s kids!

If children can't behave properly, they should not be taken out to eat! If I am paying decent money for a meal, I don't want screaming badly behaved children around me and have been known to stick a foot out from beneath the table when children have been running round a restaurant! Staff should be able to kick out families who don't keep their children under control. Or charge them double, that would work. Hit them in their wallets, like a fine!

If kids aren't taught to sit at a table at home and are allowed to run around during meal times they cannot be expected to sit quietly at a table when they are out. There are also far too many electronic babysitters used to keep them quiet. No wonder so many adolescents/teenagers are monosyllabic and don't know how to properly use cutlery

My God they sound exactly like my children and almost the exact same ages. They irritate and drain me and so it must be 100x more annoying for someone who's not their parent!!

Yanbu at that age they should be able to sit and act appropriately. The parents not correcting the behaviour is what I find most infuriating when I'm in a restaurant. In future you should tell them to sit and behave if the parents are not going to.

I have four children 4/5/11/13 in the house they are the loudest wildest hethans, but out doors and at meal times I can't fault them they are brilliant, the 4 would be tempted to wander and probably get a bit fed up. I can't imagine my 11/13 throwing food or shouting, I know it's dramatic but I'd have been absolutely mortified and would have taken my kids home if they even dared to shriek and throw food. So no in my opinion that's not normal at all, a bit of noise giggling and perhaps talking over eachother untill they were reminded about indoor voices. I can understand why you were overwhelmed and didn't enjoy yourself.

Although to be fair mine don't really actually like this in public or in company of other people (because they are shy and youngest has suspected selective mutism not because they are good people )

11 seems pretty old to be throwing food in a restaurant. Talking loudly over others / monopolising conversation is probably more normal. Getting up, running around, shrieking i s also pretty bad.

Giving an iPad with headphones and strict instructions to be quiet is ok in a restaurant for younger kids when they’re not actually eating. Not brilliant perfect parenting, but wanting adult conversation with friends occasionally is fair enough! But leaving them with devices that they’re playing on very loudly is pretty poor in a restaurant....

Children are no fun to eat out with, even if they belong to you. They just don't get the same pleasure out of sitting quietly making conversation and eating. The kids were probably bored especially because their parents wanted to talk to you rather than chat to them and keep them busy.
Things that will help here assuming they aren't able to get a sitter.
Meet somewhere with space for the kids to run off to, a playground or attached soft-play or kids area.
Or as pp suggested, go to their home and get a take-away. The kids will probably disappear to the tv or their rooms.
As a last resort could you split things up so the men take the kids on a walk or something whilst the women chat then swap around the next time?

Mine never behaved like this at 5 and certainly not 11. Younger than 5 and one of them would have been a nightmare so we just didn't risk it. Didn't want to spoil things for other people. We always took colouring books etc if it was a meal with adults and no other kids to chat to.

DS (11) can have his moments due to sensory overwhelm, but it's not fair to expect everyone else to have to put up with it, and I remove him for a while to calm down. I've had many ruined dinners over the years and many a time have sat in the car while others have finished off especially by dessert, but it's not fair to stay and ruin everyone elses dinner too. Mine's ruined either way. The hard one is if I'm out with no other adults and can't abandon DS2 or the table, but I'm more likely to be at a "safe" place then, and DH more likely to be involved in a higher risk situation.

If the tablets come out, they are on silent. I don't want to hear it. No one else wants to hear it.

DS is a harder child than average due to his sensory needs and it's a gamble, most meals go well, others... don't. But with decent parenting, NT 5 & 11 year olds should be able to be reasonably civilised through a meal. They obviously have to survive a school day at those ages.

Sorry, no your DH is wrong. At these ages, children are capable of behaving well in public and not being annoying. Either these two don't eat out or the parents are useless.