To think 8am to 6pm at nursery/school+wraparound is just too much

[magicsoosh]

Apparently Mon-Fri 8am to 6pm childcare is normal.. AIBU to think that's a lot? That's more hours than most full time jobs

IMO it is far too much and one of several reasons why DH and I have decided for me to remain a SAHM. Money is tighter now that our household income has halved, but we feel it is so much better for our DS, who is with me doing various activities every day and can still see his grandmother a few times a week too. My own childhood experiences echo those of a previous post, whereby I was looked after by a child-minder virtually full-time until the age of seven, which I really disliked. I'll never forget how sad I used to feel after school, when all of my friends were being collected by their parents/grandparents, most of whom either worked part-time or not at all, and the only person to greet me was a scowling red face who clearly enjoyed childminding more for the income. When my mother eventually decided to pack in her career to raise me full-time, life seemed so much more pleasant and happier, which is exactly what I want for my own DC.

I’ve just finished working in a nursery to become a childminder.

Those children are educated, loved, played with and muttered ALL DAY. Nobody says “wait a minute I’ve got to answer an email” “I’ll play after I’ve done the washing” it’s a bloody brilliant day/week if you choose provision properly.

I meant to add that DH works in an NHS band 4 admin role, so take home pay is approx £1650 a month, so apparently far less than the average family income. After mortgage and bills etc it leaves virtually nothing for saving or trips out very often, and we have another DC on the way, but I feel so much happier spending the precious time with DS.

It's a full time job plus a commute, certainly in London - I needed 8-6 for both my kids to get into town, work 9-5 and get back.

It is a long day and we do our best to reduce it - both do 4 days compressed hours and stagger hours so that we can pick up by 5 - but I do also think some people romanticise the alternatives

Great if you have fit, healthy and enthusiastic grandparents able to do childcare but I have known several children basically just parked in front of the TV for hours by grandparents who aren't able to take them out easily - one of my cousins did this with their kids, the grandparents were elderly and just not able to do much, one day a week might have been fine but those kids got very little stimulation.

Similarly, I have met SAHMs at playgroups who are just so fed up with their kids that they are ignoring them completely.

In comparison, a high quality nursery may be better.

I am not saying all grandparents/SAHMs are useless but just that it's not always the best option either

Of course it's too much but what the fuck do you expect? Parents have to work! Quite frankly my working week is often 'too much' for me but guess what? Money doesn't make itself. If you're smug about being a SAHP then you do you hon, but don't forget about all the risks associated with that too. I'm not prepared to be screwed financially if my relationship ends or DH dies.

What do you want working parents to do exactly?

I don't even have children, but you're being goady. Just stop.

Mine are in full time childcare (grandparents do 1 day for the baby). I probably could afford to give up work. Different lifestyle but certainly possible. I don't feel guilty though. Both kids are happy, engaged and well looked after. The nursery care is exceptional and school childminder is great too. Both my kids get a huge amount from the stimulation of other children and professional childcare and both are bright and high energy so it suits them. If I picked them up early they wouldn't want to chill out at home anyway... not all children are alike - if they struggled I would probably try to reduce my hours. They are also well loved and secure, we spend a lot of quality time together as a family at weekends and holidays.
Fwiw my mum was a sahm. I was always jealous of the kids who went to childminders!

I was at Nursery as a child .Later on went to friends house or DGP after School .Not ideal but DM had to work, as DF died and she was a widow with a little girl to provide for .In an ideal world we would have choices .I worked as a Nursery School teacher .My Nursery was a good one and the children were well cared for ,After lunch naps, and quiet time provided. Many more parents need to work these days.Food ,Energy bills and so on to pay for . One person at home FT these days is rare and puts a lot of pressure on a marriage.If you dont want to put your Baby in FT care ,dont, Its not illegal! Stop trying to pile a heap of shit on working mums by guilt tripping them like this

Yes op you're quite right, it's far too much. NONE of the people you've ever known, spoke to or worked with were in that many hours of childcare from nursery, the only ones that did are currently rocking in corners on psych wards.

You need to quit your job right now op and don't even THINK about working until they toddle off to university. God forbid if you do otherwise, they'll probably just fall over and forget how to do anything. Even if you are struggling for money, you do not work again.

Why do these threads always cause so much anger and resentment? OP is freely expressing a valid viewpoint, for babies and young children to be away from their parents/primary caregivers for 10 hours a day + is not at all ideal. The anger caused by stating this opinion would suggest that many are aware of this, but for whatever reason are unwilling to admit it.

It is a long day but children are incredibly resilient and it becomes their normal. My kids only go three days a week but they are there from 7am to 6pm. They ask to go on the days that they aren't there. It's not like they are being dropped in an environment where they are being neglected. My kids get attention, love, socialisation, education, plenty of play time and decent meals. I feel incredibly lucky that I can send my children to a safe place that they love, while I pursue my career.

Come back when your a fulltime working parent with no other childcare options

@magicsoosh

I posted at 3am while feeding my baby...

Women need to make choices for their own families. They don't need judgey sanctimonious feedback. Life is hard enough.

@FairyCatMother

Why do these threads always cause so much anger and resentment? OP is freely expressing a valid viewpoint, for babies and young children to be away from their parents/primary caregivers for 10 hours a day + is not at all ideal. The anger caused by stating this opinion would suggest that many are aware of this, but for whatever reason are unwilling to admit it.

Because there’s no way of saying it that doesn’t sound preachy or judgey. Do you think MNers put their children in wraparound care for fun? Really? So how is it constructive, useful or kind to voice it? It’s not a nice ‘thinking aloud’ thread it’s a ‘how could you possibly, I never would’ looking down the thread.

Some of those who do become SAHMs can be very naïve about the financial and security implications of the choice.

It's often much more than a few years of cutting back and going without luxuries. It can have very long term implications on your career progression, family security, individual independence and funding your retirement.

Of course it doesn't apply to all SAHMs. Some think it through very carefully and make provision where they can. Some are so rich that it doesn't matter. But for me personally, no way would i take the chance. My ability to provide for myself and my children is too important to me.

@magicsoosh

I posted at 3am while feeding my baby...

Come back when your baby is old enough to drop the middle of the night feeds and stop being so pissy about those that need to work.

Unless you have a magical teleportation device enabling you to travel instantly through time and space from your childcare setting to your 9-5 job (which is not even long hours, by the way), you're going to need childcare for an hour either side of your actual working hours, OP.

My son goes to the childminder from 8-6:30 five days a week and has done since he was about 7 months old. He doesn't seem traumatised.

@SockFluffInTheBath There are many things in life that some people might do, that others couldn't or wouldn't, including being a SAHM, or not putting your child in a nursery for 10+ hours a day. These decisions and views are equally valid, and are motivated by good intentions. My relative has just spent £4000 on a once in a lifetime flight in a WW2 Spitfire. Mine and DH's savings barely amount to £4000, and I have a fear of flying, but I don't feel any resentment towards my relative for being able to afford this experience. The same goes for those who can/'t afford to be SAHMs, there will always be 'haves' and 'have nots', but expressing unjust anger and resentment towards those who hold different views is unnecessary.

Yeah it’s a lot.
My kids both absolutely loved nursery and therefore I didn’t feel bad about it. To them it was normal as it was what they knew.

[quote FairyCatMother]@SockFluffInTheBath There are many things in life that some people might do, that others couldn't or wouldn't, including being a SAHM, or not putting your child in a nursery for 10+ hours a day. These decisions and views are equally valid, and are motivated by good intentions. My relative has just spent £4000 on a once in a lifetime flight in a WW2 Spitfire. Mine and DH's savings barely amount to £4000, and I have a fear of flying, but I don't feel any resentment towards my relative for being able to afford this experience. The same goes for those who can/'t afford to be SAHMs, there will always be 'haves' and 'have nots', but expressing unjust anger and resentment towards those who hold different views is unnecessary.[/quote]
People resent being judged for working when they have no choice. Your relative chose to buy the plane, many can't choose to be stay at home parents (although let's face it, 99% of the time it's the mother who is expected to stay at home) because they simply can't afford it. And then they have to put up with people like you and the OP telling them they are damaging their children.

My kids get 8am-6pm three days, term time nursery provision but I don’t work. So they go for six hours instead three days. And that’s enough, the nursery don’t mind that they’re not using the whole 10 hours per day.
I think the government want women to be able to work and provide and contribute to the tax coffers. Tbh though, I’ll just stick with being home till they’re both at primary school.
I can’t find a job that fits in with the council nursery and I can’t book extra hours or childcare in the holidays.
I get the impression that it’s also about the attainment gap and the policy that kids are better in childcare and I just don’t agree. I think they’re better at home with me most of the time and working is just too stressful. I’ll work when they’re older, just not now. I don’t like hard Labour anyway.

@codeVeronica For the PP's on here who state their decision to place their children in childcare is 'for the sake of their career', they have indeed made a choice, which the OP, myself and others believe can in some cases impact children negatively. There is a fine difference between being forced to make that choice by circumstances (widowhood, inability to afford being a SAHP etc), and deciding to a 'career' is regarded as having the same importance as spending that time raising one's own children.

It worked well for me 30 years ago.

they have indeed made a choice, which the OP, myself and others believe can in some cases impact children negatively.

Mothers having careers can impact children very positively also, as you say, everyone makes their choices.