To think 8am to 6pm at nursery/school+wraparound is just too much

[magicsoosh]

Apparently Mon-Fri 8am to 6pm childcare is normal.. AIBU to think that's a lot? That's more hours than most full time jobs

@mrziggycoco

It just seems bizarre to me that you would not see your baby or child for that long each day so you can work, so you can pay for the child to be in care, so you can work.

Obviously you don't have the ability to look at the bigger picture then. I put my children in to nursery to keep my career going, albeit with my own sacrifices of part time working and rushing about constantly to facilitate said childcare. Now, 10 years later I have had several promotions etc and we are in a comfortable position - way more comfortable than if I'd have given up my job at the first hurdle and we had to rely on one wage.

For children under 2, yes, I absolutely think it's too long, and will likely do them damage in the longterm. I appreciate some people feel they don't have a choice, but think this is an indictment on our society and our attitude to the first years of life in general.

But in a family you are not independent that's the whole point of family.

Families don't always last forever. You might be damn grateful for your independence at some stage

@TheKeatingFive

But in a family you are not independent that's the whole point of family.

Families don't always last forever. You might be damn grateful for your independence at some stage

100%. I wish I’d kept my job all the way along and kept at full time and not had to pull myself up from the bottom

@juliainthedeepwater

For children under 2, yes, I absolutely think it's too long, and will likely do them damage in the longterm. I appreciate some people feel they don't have a choice, but think this is an indictment on our society and our attitude to the first years of life in general.

But research does not suggest that being in full time childcare causes any damage whatsoever. You are talking out of your arse.

@juliainthedeepwater

For children under 2, yes, I absolutely think it's too long, and will likely do them damage in the longterm. I appreciate some people feel they don't have a choice, but think this is an indictment on our society and our attitude to the first years of life in general.

What damage does it do?

The evidence for the impact of early childcare, and whether it has any, is very mixed - unlike the research on the impact of parental income on children's life chances, which is absolutely crystal clear. If you were making an evidence-driven choice (which I don't necessarily advocate for this kind of decision) then you'd choose to have two working parents, every time.

@HandScreen Oh dear. Rude and wrong - bit embarrassing. There is plenty of research suggesting exactly that, especially at the extreme end of the spectrum being discussed here.

@HardbackWriter do you know - I was a low wage earner when my kids were small but now they’re all in their 20s I’m a higher earner. At what point does it start to make a difference? Have I done enough for them to try to negate the impact of the poor years?

Well of course it's more hours than most full time jobs. Duh! Because the parent working that full time job also has commuting time on top of it.

@HardbackWriter I thought it was level of education and cultural background not the income itself i.e. children from more academic family homes tend to be more academic themselves or did I get the wrong end of the stick with that research

[quote FairyCatMother]@codeVeronica In many ways yes I do think it's a bad thing, and far more depressing is when children spend 10+ hours a day apart from their parents because their parents opt to fulfill this modern trend (note: I say opt, I am not referring to those whose circumstances force it).[/quote]
Let's all go back to the days when women were expected to be housewives and couldn't have a career, whether they want to or not.

Why do women have to give up their careers? Why not the men? I would ask about single mothers, but no doubt you don't like them either.

I hope you don't have any daughters.

[quote juliainthedeepwater]@HandScreen Oh dear. Rude and wrong - bit embarrassing. There is plenty of research suggesting exactly that, especially at the extreme end of the spectrum being discussed here.[/quote]
Can you link us to it please?

GF at its finest here!!!

[quote AchillesPoirot]@HardbackWriter do you know - I was a low wage earner when my kids were small but now they’re all in their 20s I’m a higher earner. At what point does it start to make a difference? Have I done enough for them to try to negate the impact of the poor years?[/quote]
According to the research summary from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation - Money in early childhood makes most difference to cognitive outcomes, while in later childhood and adolescence it makes more difference to social and behavioural outcomes.
www.jrf.org.uk/report/does-money-affect-children%E2%80%99s-outcomes

But none of these things are prophecies or can tell you what will happen for an individual child, of course - they tell you about statistical likelihood. And I'm sure you gave your children many, many other things. But it does mean that choosing deliberately to live on a low income rather than work isn't the gold standard super-mummy choice that some posters on here appear to think - there are potential downsides that aren't just the fact that the family won't have a streaming service.

[quote sweetbambi]@HardbackWriter I thought it was level of education and cultural background not the income itself i.e. children from more academic family homes tend to be more academic themselves or did I get the wrong end of the stick with that research[/quote]
The link I put above is a summary of research that suggests that this is only partially true:

This review identified 34 studies with strong evidence about whether money affects children’s outcomes. Children in lower-income families have worse cognitive, social-behavioural and health outcomes in part because they are poorer, not just because low income is correlated with other household and parental characteristics.
The evidence was strongest for cognitive development and school achievement, followed by social-behavioural development. Income also affects outcomes indirectly impacting on children, including maternal mental health, parenting and home environment.

It's a long day and children do get exhausted by it but there aren't many alternatives.
Most families can't afford to live on one salary. You might be able to work opposite shifts so one's at home in the day and the other in the evening but where's your family time and not all jobs offer that flexibility. Extended family is great but most people don't have that either.
So the only option is childcare and I agree with others that most children love and thrive at nursery.
Even if a child only sees mum/dad for a couple of hours in the evening they still have all weekends and holidays together.

In the case of those who can afford not to, it makes sense to ask why bother having children, if you're planning to pass a large part of their care onto someone else?

What does your husband say when you ask him that? Given that he chose to have a child planning to go to work and fob off a large part of their care onto someone else?
Or is it only wrong when a woman does it?

@sweetbambi I had a name change fail there but hopefully the post still makes sense!

Our CM opened from 7am until 6:30pm but rarely were children there for that whole time but a few were. That’s a punishing day for CM’s too but there are parents that need a very long day.

@Coyoacan exactly! People who have to work those hours do it for money, not just because. That is the norm in society with all the sky rocketing bills and payments we all have to be able to lead decent lives.
I’m pregnant and I will be dropping baby off at nursery when ten months old at 8am and picking up at 3pm because that’s what my hours are. I can’t afford to drop my hours. Other parents, most parents actually have to stay at work later and finish at 5, then have a commute.
It’s shit. Kids adapt. We all do the best we can.

@HardbackWriter so it is down to social economic and probably parents own educational level and cultural background that plays the biggest role rather then just if both parents work or not

[quote sweetbambi]@HardbackWriter so it is down to social economic and probably parents own educational level and cultural background that plays the biggest role rather then just if both parents work or not[/quote]
The link I posted explicitly says that it's both, but that income does play a role that isn't just because it's correlated with other factors.

Didn’t bother mine. Glad I didn’t give my job up as they barely remember being at nursery. Never minded Afterschool club, plenty of time to chill at home

[quote sweetbambi]@TheKeatingFive my point was to point out why it is not a benefit for the child when BOTH parents solely priorities their career and still claim this is what is best for the child. I fully get that these long hours can be a necessary evil[/quote]
I'm one of those awful mothers who's child is in full time nursery (normally 8-5) because of my "career". Which it is btw, and also gives a financial security.. I was part time until DH was made redundant and then went for a promotion that had to be full time.. when he got another job, we both stayed full time and DC stays in nursery FT and will do some sort of wraparound when she goes to school.

She loves it and it's not just the immediate need that we are focussing on. Both dc will benefit from financial security, hopefully being able to go to university if they wish without graduating with huge debt, we will be able to set them up / support with home buying and me and DH have secure retirement plans and a female role model to show that they can achieve what they want to.

But, actually, no one needs to explain their circumstances. I'm not sure any one has clarified why it is anyone else's business what decisions people make about their own childrens childcare provision.