To be shocked by how blasé alot of MNers are about abortion

[Nothanksloveimfine]

Yes its healthcare, yes free and safe abortion is completely necessary because the alternative doesn't bare thinking about, yes everybody has a right to choose what's best for them and yes I am pro choice (whilst being explicitly pro life with regards to my own pregnancies)

With all that said and done, I am quite alarmed at how a sizable % of MNers are so blase about abortions. Whenever a poster is talking about being pregnant with an unplanned baby and in a less than perfect situation, I see alot of posters urging her to just have a termination like its a routine stroll through the park.

I've just read a heartbreaking article which is being discussed at the minute and some of the replies on that thread are so cold. It made me cry and I'm wondering how the hell people can read that and not be impacted by it, completely steamrolling over the tragic loss of life by saying things like "that's a rare case" abortion is a good thing bla bla bla.

Does anybody else share my view or am I the odd one out?

It's like people are so determined to bang the "right to abort" drum, they have no regard for the babies whatsoever.

Abortion can be totally necessary but it's also pretty sad IMO.

You can care about the mother without being so cold and dismissive of the baby they were carrying.

Caring about the babies doesn't mean I hate women, I am one.

Yes I've name changed because I don't expect this will go down well here.

I am pro choice and would accompany any woman to have an abortion, even a stranger.
I do feel uncomfortable with some people that say ‘just’ have an abortion as if it’s no big deal but I presume that’s just how they feel, like a PP here saying they would see it the same as having a mole removed. For me, I would feel more emotional than that, but other women are different and that’s ok. If I think about it, it can be upsetting but my feelings about women having full control of their bodies matters more than my feelings.

I know couples that haven’t done anything to prevent pregnancy and then have had abortions. Again, I find that difficult. But regardless, there’s no point bringing a child into the world that isn’t wanted and women having control over their body does override everything.

It’s possible to be pro choice but still find abortion a difficult thing.

No woman should feel guilty about not bringing a baby into the world that they can't support, feed or give a decent life too. That's seems selfish to me that people are so pushy that every child should be born but most would end up in complete poverty as a result

*matters more than my feelings of discomfort.

I agree with OP.

Anyway abortion wasn’t supposed to be pro choice but was supposed to be signed off by a doctor because of the risk to mothers mental or physical health a great principle.
In reality now that just means now abortion on demand but the underlying law hasn’t changed.

Babies are only cells for a very few weeks then clearly they are alive and formed foetus. You can’t say this though in RL or on here probably get a massive slagging from certain people! I do think we do a disservice to young girls- women pretending they are just cells. Like people in abortion clinics scanning to date the baby and pretending they can’t see a
Moving foetus. Also the way a miscarried foetus’s remains are treated differently to a aborted foetus’s remains.

Society is lying to itself and women.

Sorry but I’m entitled to my views too.

I see it as just an element of healthcare. What I find sad is that it’s treated as some dirty little secret. A huge, huge number of women will have an abortion at some point (something like 1 in 3 or 1 in 4), yet it’s still seen as something shameful, not to be discussed openly, with an expectation to feel guilty. That is wrong.

The woman should always take priority over the fetus. To do otherwise reduces women to mere incubators and it’s a slippery slope. In the US, some states are actively restricting access to abortion. At the same time, some companies, churches etc are trying to limit coverage of contraception (yet those same companies happily cover viagra, for example). It’s all about the subjugation of women. Abortion rights are womens rights. They affect us all, whether we have been personally affected by abortion or not.

Whenever a poster is talking about being pregnant with an unplanned baby and in a less than perfect situation, I see alot of posters urging her to just have a termination like its a routine stroll through the park

Never happened. Except in your head.

Given that thread involved, not a bunch of cells, but a 30 week old fetus which is very much a baby that could potentially survive outside the womb, it is notable that people gloss over that.

And you do sometimes see threads here where there are people who are quite forceful in saying that someone is being irresponsible in not getting an abortion, particularly someone young or with financial problems.

I think the underlying reason is that they have taken the fact that abortion is legal and from that conclude that there is no ethical issue around it - the assumption being that if there was any ethical consideration to aborting a fetus it would be illegal. Which isn't the case, it's entirely possible to have ethical issues related to all available courses of action in a given situation, and the best outcome simply has to weigh them in the given circumstances.

This was pretty well understood and a common viewpoint up until maybe 30 years ago, but no longer seems to be.

I agree with you OP

Yawn I don't know anyone who would use abortion as contraception I've had one very early and it really really hurt. I've had a natural birth as well and I found the contracting pains quite similar. I'm very very careful because of the experience I was actually terrified of sex for a while after. I don't regret it for a second but I seriously doubt people are using abortion as contraception unless there's other things like MH issues it's really not pleasant .

People need to butt out it's not your foetus to grow give birth too, choose to have adopted or bring up yourself.

It's easy to be pro-life when you're white and middle class and seeing it through your lens of affluence.

The reality isn't pretty. Children born with FAS to drug addicts, from rape, poverty, abuse. These children often grow up neglected and abused.

@echt

Whenever a poster is talking about being pregnant with an unplanned baby and in a less than perfect situation, I see alot of posters urging her to just have a termination like its a routine stroll through the park

Never happened. Except in your head.

It absolutely does. I can remember one in particular involved, I think the sister or daughter of the OP, where several posters basically said the family was being unethical to not try and push the girl strongly toward an abortion. Because, from their POV, and abortion was in itself a completely neutral act, allowing a teen of 16 to make her choice was essentially allowing her to ruin her life for no reason.

It was strongly enough worded that one of the people on the thread, who considered herself very much pro-choice, expressed her shock at seeing that logic expressed as she hadn't realized anyone thought that way.

@RantyAunty

It's easy to be pro-life when you're white and middle class and seeing it through your lens of affluence.

The reality isn't pretty. Children born with FAS to drug addicts, from rape, poverty, abuse. These children often grow up neglected and abused.

People who are oddly invested in trying to ban and shame women for having abortion don't care about any of that. The previous babies can rot once they're actually born.

@whumpthereitis

Nobody can look at the scan of even a ten week old foetus and be in any doubt as to what they are looking at (hint: not a mole; not an indiscernible mass of cells).

So? What a fetus is or isn’t doesn’t need to have any bearing on whether abortion can be a right and positive choice for women. The emotional value you place on a fetus is personal to you, it’s not universal. No one is obliged to consider it to be any more than the medical procedure it is.

You know, you are saying this as if it's objective, but it's very much an opinion.

There are people who won't eat eggs with chicks in them because they are living things, and not just as a matter of personal preference, they will make an argument around the moral significance of that chick, or other animals as well.

No one pretends those aren't real discussions about universal realities. Just as discussions about the moral value of women are, for that matter. Or the moral value of newborn infants which some people historically and even today feel should also be considered less than older people and subject to infanticide.

"So what" it's all subjective isn't a serious engagement.

You know what I find cold? Encouraging someone with no supports and an abusive partner to have a baby because, "you'll love it once it's here" and 'I just couldn't'. I've seen it on here and it's terrifying. Women chained to abusive men for decades because they can't face an abortion. Not that they want a child. But that they can't abort.

Unwanted children being brought into the world is terrible and I see the sharp end of that every day.

It's not a collective coldness. There have been threads in the past where the majority position has been closer to your's. But they weren't started in a goady way after 10.30pm at night. That isn't the time for a reasoned discussion and it's also a time when posters are unrepresentative of the main MN demographic. But I guess you know that and that's why you picked this time and that wording.

Collective coldness?? Its women supporting women to make whatever choice is right for them you don't have martyr yourself saying it's fine for other women who aren't you.

How ridiculous for some posters to claim that the OP can’t be pro-life because she believes abortion is a decision that should never be approached lightly.
I had an abortion 25 years ago. Sometimes I wonder about the person my ‘mass of cells’ might have become. It fills me with sadness and at times I have felt guilt and regret. On balance, I don’t regret my decision because I know I wasn’t ready to have a child. I am grateful the opportunity was there for me to choose my own future. But it certainly wasn’t like having a mole removed. And I deeply regret that I fell pregnant and had to make a choice. It caused me a lot of heartache. That might be uncomfortable but it’s the truth.

It’s deeply disingenuous to pretend that abortion might not cause feelings of guilt or pain. Yes, I am pro-choice. I support a woman’s right to make decisions about her body. But abortion isn’t always an easy path and a woman should understand she may later experience difficult feelings, as I have. Like most things in life, it’s not a black and white issue and there are many shades of grey in between.
So yes, I understand what you mean, OP.

Whenever a poster is talking about being pregnant with an unplanned baby and in a less than perfect situation, I see alot of posters urging her to just have a termination like its a routine stroll through the park
Sometimes it is 🤷‍♀️
There are plenty of women on here bringing babies into their shitshow of a life without a single thought to the (potential) child. Deciding that the piece of shit they've gotten pregnant to is what their child deserves. Who are they thinking of OP? Certainly not the child.
THen there are the loons who spout that "every child is a blessing" to the parent whose 14yr old is pregnant and thinks they're capable enough to raise a child.

Far, far more dangerous is the idea that we encourage every woman/child in a shit situation to carry on because "it will work out"
I'd prefer that women thought of what they were doing to a child by bringing one into the situation they are in but they're not going to do that when the cheerleaders are telling they how it will all be fine because they are so 'awesome' Yeah, nah. Awesome is not deciding to bring a baby into a crap situation 🤷‍♀️
Abortion is often the BEST situation but it's not often, if at all, that people actually say that. So not really sure what you're on about.

I am pro-choice. None of my business what another woman does with her own body.

But yes, I do find the thought of abortion sad. I don't know if it is linked to the missed miscarriage I had. It was my first pregnancy and I was only 25. I was utterly devestated. The baby was only 10 weeks but it looked like a baby to me on the scan.

I find it strange that someone who has these feelings, but is apparently pro choice, would start a thread on it. Ive already stated that I find abortion an uncomfortable and difficult subject. However because I am pro choice and do believe that women must have total control over their bodies, I wouldn’t dream of starting a thread like this. It doesn’t sound very pro choice at all. 🤔

@gamerchick

So not pro choice then OP?

But the OP has already made it clear that she is pro choice and recognises that access to safe abortions is necessary.

It is possible to see both sides of a topic...

I agree with your choice to not want an abortion but it is every woman's choice & right to choose whether or not she has an abortion.

You can believe that's it's a woman's right to choose, while still thinking it's a big deal for many women.
Ok, for some it's just like a mole, but not everyone feels that way.
Making out like any emotional distress is completely irrational, or refusing to acknowledge it is unfair on the many women who struggle with the decision. Doesn't mean it's the wrong decision, it's just normal to have strong feelings about important decisions.
I see your point OP.

I agree with you OP. So if you don't think of abortion any differently than having a mole removed you aren't pro choice?

I AM pro choice, but I too have found people on here encouraging women to have abortions. Even if the OP has stated she's keeping the pregnancy.

I AM pro choice. I had an abortion in my twenties, it wasn't easy, it was fuck all like having a mole removed. I don't regret it because it was a short lived relationship, I was skint and my mental health wasn't the best. But I still feel a pang when I think about it.

OP: Whenever a poster is talking about being pregnant with an unplanned baby and in a less than perfect situation, I see alot of posters urging her to just have a termination like its a routine stroll through the park*

Me: Never happened. Except in your head.

It absolutely does. I can remember one in particular involved, I think the sister or daughter of the OP, where several posters basically said the family was being unethical to not try and push the girl strongly toward an abortion. Because, from their POV, and abortion was in itself a completely neutral act, allowing a teen of 16 to make her choice was essentially allowing her to ruin her life for no reason

1. This is one, not a lot.

2.. The choice is not represented as "a walk in the park" as claimed by the OP.