To think if you vote Tory now…

[Joanna1988124]

You’re effectively propping up this absolute shit show of a government and have no empathy.

I’ll be honest, I’ve voted conservative before as a middle class family their (taxation) policies have suited me more than Labour. I honestly feel ashamed of this and I wish I could’ve seen that the conservatives agenda of ‘levelling up’ is BS.

Regardless of your personal situation, enough is enough now right? People are reliant on food banks, they’re choosing between heating and eating. Austerity has been a total nightmare for society causing the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

@lifeturnsonadime

In January one political party proposed removing VAT on heating fuel, the other party opposed it. I will leave you to guess which was which

You haven't answered my question. . What I am asking is what Labour Policy is if and when they get into government.

Are you saying that the Labour party policy is not to remove VAT on fuel even though they proposed it in parliament in January?

All this talk of ‘there’s no opposition’ is a red herring. We’re waaay off from the point of calling a general election. Before that the tories would need to select a new leader.

The current cabinet are a bag of shite if you ask me, but that doesn’t detract from the point that the tories think an admitted incompetent serial liar and law breaker is their ‘best’ and they literally have no one better to lead their party, never mind the country.

That doesn’t sound quite right does it? Out of all the people in an established political party they believe they are reliant on one man? Why’s that?

I think anyone who makes generalisations about people based on who they vote for is doing a disservice to open debate.

Politics is nuanced. People look at parties and policies and make decisions based on the balance and how important individual aspects are to them personally.

People can dislike Boris and think he is a self serving opportunist, but still think that the Conservatives will be better because xyz.
Just like people can think that Labour policies are on average better but still choose not to vote for them because of abc.

I would imagine pretty much everyone agrees that the Downing Street lockdown parties were a total disgrace. But that on its own is not necessarily a reason to not vote Conservative.

Balance. Nuance. Weighing up priorities. Not name calling.

@lifeturnsonadime

In January one political party proposed removing VAT on heating fuel, the other party opposed it. I will leave you to guess which was which

You haven't answered my question. . What I am asking is what Labour Policy is if and when they get into government.

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2022-0005/

The Opposition doesn't get much time in parliament to propose things (because they aren't the government)

On Opposition Day in January, Labour proposed removing VAT from household energy bills and to launch a contingency fund for businessess struggling with rising energy costs as well as changes to how business rates are applied.

Obvs the Tories voted against it.

So if you really want to know Labour propose doing, it is out there but it won't make front page news in the tabloids

They have also proposed retaining the UC uplift of 20quid a week and changing UC to reduce the taper rate which hits low paid workers the hardest which given the cost of living crisis seems absolutely vital

Are you saying that the Labour party policy is not to remove VAT on fuel even though they proposed it in parliament in January?

maybe, but cutting taxes is not actually listed in their 'Stronger Together' Framework.

How can a party that reduces taxes have core policies of improving public services?

And women, vulnerable women.

I just can't get past what the Labour Party will do to them.

@lifeturnsonadime

Are you saying that the Labour party policy is not to remove VAT on fuel even though they proposed it in parliament in January?

maybe, but cutting taxes is not actually listed in their 'Stronger Together' Framework.

How can a party that reduces taxes have core policies of improving public services?

You can want to cut some taxes but also raise others.

VAT is a very regressive tax. Much fairer to reduce it and increase income tax on top earners for example. Or capital gains tax. Or increase inheritance tax on estates above a certain level and cut down on loopholes to avoid it. Or levy more carbon taxes as those hit people most who consume most (eg the wealthier). Or launch new taxes based on land value (my favoured option, time to make the Duke of Westminster and James Dyson and so start paying some serious taxes)

Balance. Nuance. Weighing up priorities. Not name calling

God, wouldn't that be nice? Questioning, listening, partial agreements, agreeing to disagree, disliking the argument without attacking the speaker/voter, making a persuasive argument without denigrating the opposition, affording others the same room to be as complicated and as thinking as we are..these are the cornerstones of genuine political debate. Picking a tribe and building a political identity in simple contrast to the oppositional other and slinging mud accordingly is a poor substitute.

@Somanysocks

Couldn't vote for a party who call the opposition scum and scumbags. It shows their character to throw insults in such a way.

Ha ha - sure, better to vote for a party that thinks most of us are scum (but only says so behind closed doors). As if Tories (at the top) have any concept of decency or morals - what a laugh. Liar Boris - he is lying scum and we are all the poorer for allowing him to get away with it.

It'll be women's issues that will win them the next election : disregarding 50 percent of the population will be labour's downfall and if they don't sort this out it'll be curtains for them again.
Plus people do not trust them either. Despite everything that's gone on recently.
I'm not saying this is right , but it is what it is
I don't vote conservative., but I understand why people do and enough people ring lbc radio saying why they will do again as well.

@Itsbackagain

I'm in Scotland who can I vote for that has the biggest chance of getting shot of SNP?

Nobody other than the Conservatives.

Every other reply in here is very England centric as though they don't seem to realise the UK is more than just England.

Mad how some can post "I don't know enough about Scotland to comment" when it's the same country!

And that country is called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Not England.

Whoops apologies - I meant to put Labour not Conservative at the start of my second paragraph.

custardlover wanting womens rights does not make a person transphobic.

Thanks MNHQ

This Tory government are the most disgraceful politicians to ever run this country. Will people vote in Tories again, after everything they have done…not just party gate but the tax rises, the cost-of-living crises, NHS at breaking point etc.

I am worried about labour position on women rights but, the Tories need to be stopped.

I said that about Scotland.

I am vaguely aware of some SNP funding scandals - I read private eye - but not enough to know where they stand in the league table of corruption. Sometimes it is best not have a view when you don't feel you have enough reliable information.

Scotland is very nice. But it's also a regional government, far away from me. I just don't follow the details of the ins and outs of Scottish politics any more than I do for Northern Ireland or Liverpool or Cornwall.

If you could give me just ONE solid policy that they have to counter austerity it would help but I have never seen a single one.*
Windfall tax on energy companies.

Errrrr because it is the truth!
Depends on who you talk to and when. So PM Johnson refused to say that only women have a cervix. Now he's changed his mind. Sort of. I have zero faith in his latest statement, I found it wishy washy. If the Tory party decide that Penny Mordaunt should be their new leader, you'll find plenty of backtracking in those Senior Conservatives.

@lifeturnsonadime

In January one political party proposed removing VAT on heating fuel, the other party opposed it. I will leave you to guess which was which

You haven't answered my question. . What I am asking is what Labour Policy is if and when they get into government.

Instead of trying to play ' Labour gotcha' , why don't you look up their manifesto from the last GE? you clearly have the internet.

Labour are, and always have been, the more socially conscious party.

This is Labours manifesto from 2017 :

labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-manifesto-2017.pdf

I would imagine their next manifesto to address some of the same issues.

The problem we have now is that a majority of Mumsnetters have been bought and paid for, by a line about women and penises from a unrepentant misogynist.

Sod everything else that this horrific shambles of a prime minister and Government has done - Mumsnetters don't care about that - but oooh, 'Boris' has said one thing we like , so lets ignore everything else.

@DazzlingDarrenDring - Labour didn't want our votes, Labour didn't want us in their party.

Women who care about women's rights are politically homeless right now. Labour didn't want us.

I wouldn't vote for either of them

Labour leader refuses to define what a woman is and he pushed for longer and harder lockdowns.

Financially we are fucked for decades as a result of all the money we pissed up a wall over lockdown and now the energy crisis is upon us and people cannot afford to eat and heat (or drive for that matter)

Tories upped the Nat insurance and that's just the start of tax increases.

Uk is fucked, and FPTP system ensures we are stuck in a never ending cycle of Tory/Labour incompetence

And that country is called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

No, the union of countries is called the UK. The country that people mainly discussing is England - as usual.

Labour are, and always have been, the more socially conscious party.

Sorry not buying it.

There is no social conscious in a policy that incarcerates women with male rapists.

There is no social conscious in a policy that affirms without question resulting in girls, most of whom, are autistic have double mastectomies and becoming infertile.

@lifeturnsonadime well said