To think if you vote Tory now…

[Joanna1988124]

You’re effectively propping up this absolute shit show of a government and have no empathy.

I’ll be honest, I’ve voted conservative before as a middle class family their (taxation) policies have suited me more than Labour. I honestly feel ashamed of this and I wish I could’ve seen that the conservatives agenda of ‘levelling up’ is BS.

Regardless of your personal situation, enough is enough now right? People are reliant on food banks, they’re choosing between heating and eating. Austerity has been a total nightmare for society causing the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

You don't share the belief that affirming gender without first having therapy and looking into the reason why there has been a 4000% upturn in girls, many of whom are autistic which is resulting in girls having mastectomies and taking puberty blockers that make them infertile is wrong?

The Interim Cass Report has highlighted serious issues with this but you think it's hyperbole?

It is happening. The surgery might not happen until they are 18 in this country

In countries where Self ID has been adopted, such as Canada and the US affirmation is happening at a younger age, parents who are seeking a watchful approach have been criminalised www.city-journal.org/canadian-father-jailed-for-speaking-out-about-trans-identifying-child

In the US gender transition clinics are a growing commercial venture. Children in their young teens are being mutilated in the name of the same ideology, transwomen are women that the Labour Party is vocally supporting.

It makes me really fucking angry that you call children who are at risk hyperbole.

You may not share my view on this, that's your prerogative but don't pretend that actual harm is not occurring and won't occur more If a political party made up of inflexible ideologues gets into power.

And blossom, how many children have to be mutilated and made infertile to be enough for you?

Jesus christ.

It makes me really fucking angry that you call children who are at risk hyperbole

It would make me really fucking mortified if I’d done it. The hyperbole refers to your over blown language and exaggeration.

"The hyperbole refers to your over blown language and exaggeration.*

It really isn't an exaggeration. This relates to a US surgeon but girls under the age of 16 have been referred to have their breasts removed in this country, just not on quite the same scale as the US...yet.

lilymaynard.com/wielding-the-sidhbh-gallagher/

I’m not part of the group who will have their lives decimated by another Tory government.

So you think you know what's it's like but have no direct experience? I grew up in a very, very working class household which is perhaps why I don't think less advantages people need me to tell them what's best for them. They will vote in accordance with their own interests and priorities.

I'm not finding defending my position hard work.

@lifeturnsonadime

What this shows to me isn't so much that it's terrible that lots of people in Labour were taken in. That was the same all over. What was a shocking revelation was that they would not admit any discussion, even by their own party members, even by their own MPs. If the Tories had done that they too would be in the same position on this issue. That should just never happen, it's toxic and it suggests you could have the same problem with other issues.

Women's rights aside. This bothers me a lot. If you don't toe the party line you might be expelled and if you are not bullying will be condoned (Rosie Duffield).

This is a problem also in the Tory Party where my own excellent MP was one of those expelled for the Brexit Rebellion.

In truth I think the whole political system is a complete mess.

With you here. IMO the whole UK constitution is anachronistic and has long since been unfit for purpose. This rot goes right through to the unelected Lords and the hereditary Head of State whose finances, along with her family's, are kept secret. Is it any great shock that some of its members are now actively known to have been using that shield of secrecy to abuse their position, whether in terms of finance or for even more dubious ends?

Then there's the inadequate first past the post system. I'll get a Tory MP irrespective of how I vote, as will anyone else living in those all-important decisive swing constituencies. It's they alone who decide the outcome of any general election. This needs properly thinking through to arrive at something better than the derisory alternative we were offered on the one occasion we were given a vote.

But as a longterm republican, I've held these views for far longer than the few days since Boris made a rare concession of support for women, having spotted a potentially lucrative vote-winner. And I'll still be voting for him, because I see women as actual citizens rather than support humans or our needs/safeguarding as collateral damage for male wants.

As to OP, your vote is your vote and a matter for your conscience. Every other citizen of these islands is granted that same privilege. Wag your purity-spiralling finger all you want on those whose conscience dictates a different turn, for reasons that are every bit as important to others as your are to you. As for 'lacking in empathy', you know where you can shove your #BeKind. That's partly the attitude that's got women into this mess in the first place.

It is happening and it's abhorrent. As a parent of an autistic girl who is non gender conforming my concerns over the Labour Party's ideology which will result in increased harm to autistic girls is neither exaggerated nor unreasonable.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/autistic-girls-seeking-answers-are-seizing-on-sex-change-3r82850gw

anyone else NOT living in the swing constituencies, that should have said.

So you think you know what's it's like but have no direct experience?

I was a single parent on benefits in the late 70s. I know exactly what it’s like.

And I'll still be voting for him

Wow that was faster than a Tory U turn. You said you wouldn’t yesterday.

I personally think the hyperbole is around 'starving dc'. We don't have starving dc in this country unless there is neglect and abuse within the home. Posters say others rely on food banks, they don't, it's rubbish, you can't rely on a food bank. They won't dole them out weekly. You get 3 at a time. I'm not saying there arent poor people, I'm not saying that it's not shit that the people in power get richer whilst we all get poorer, but we're not in a starving war zone living off rice and beans in this country. Yes there is awful practices with UC, the 5 week wait and only money for two dc ect yes the poor asylum seekers can't work and get shit asda vouchers to live on, but we're not starving on refugee portions, far from it. We're one of the richest countries in the world. I'd rather vote for a party that has finally woken up to the TRA agenda than one who hasnt even though I don't agree with them economically

The world has gone mad. This must stop.

@DragonOverTheMoon

I personally think the hyperbole is around 'starving dc'. We don't have starving dc in this country unless there is neglect and abuse within the home. Posters say others rely on food banks, they don't, it's rubbish, you can't rely on a food bank. They won't dole them out weekly. You get 3 at a time. I'm not saying there arent poor people, I'm not saying that it's not shit that the people in power get richer whilst we all get poorer, but we're not in a starving war zone living off rice and beans in this country. Yes there is awful practices with UC, the 5 week wait and only money for two dc ect yes the poor asylum seekers can't work and get shit asda vouchers to live on, but we're not starving on refugee portions, far from it. We're one of the richest countries in the world. I'd rather vote for a party that has finally woken up to the TRA agenda than one who hasnt even though I don't agree with them economically

I think you underestimate the very real hardship that some people are facing in this country.

I think you underestimate the very real hardship that some people are facing in this country

Indeed. And it’s a bloody picnic now compared with what some people will be facing next winter.

I think winter with the fuel prices will bring real hardship, but it hasn't happened yet. It's currently hyperbole to win a point in an argument.

I guess that's the problem really. If you don't actually see the very real suffering that is happening right now, it's easy to dismiss the idea that there are lots of people who are desperately struggling to cover even the most basic costs, and you assume that the stories that you do hear are just hyperbole.

If you have witnessed it for yourself, as I have through the work that I do, then there is no way that you could countenance voting Tory, even if they are the only party that seems to know what a woman is.

@DragonOverTheMoon

I think winter with the fuel prices will bring real hardship, but it hasn't happened yet. It's currently hyperbole to win a point in an argument.

I accept that you believe this. It just means that you are ignorant of what is actually going on.

I work in Children Services. I deal with awful awful stories of abuse and neglect. I work with the countries most vulnerable young people as a corporate parent (hate that word). I see suffering. It's not from having to 'rely' on food banks, which isn't the case for anyone. It's from abuse and social thinning due to abuse. No one in my team of front line workers would vote Labour atm.

It's not from having to 'rely' on food banks, which isn't the case for anyone

The statistics don’t agree with you.

www.statista.com/statistics/382695/uk-foodbank-users/

@DragonOverTheMoon

I work in Children Services. I deal with awful awful stories of abuse and neglect. I work with the countries most vulnerable young people as a corporate parent (hate that word). I see suffering. It's not from having to 'rely' on food banks, which isn't the case for anyone. It's from abuse and social thinning due to abuse. No one in my team of front line workers would vote Labour atm.

Our local foodbanks have relaxed the rules about how many times people can seek help, precisely because people are relying on them. Some of their clients would not have enough to eat otherwise. Our local council is holding crisis talks about food poverty. The problem is real, whether you see it or not.

No one in my team of front line workers would vote Labour atm.
Why?

I'm not saying people don't use food banks. What I am saying is that lots of people use them and they don't need them. They're a bonus to an otherwise miserable food shop. I'm not denying there are issues, but they are not like how it's made out in this thread or by people taking pot shots. I see first hand, I give out food bank voucher fgs. People are not starving like the poor in third world countries. It's hyperbole to say that they are.

These issues are not as important to me as womens rights.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone lots of reasons. Social care is hard and the burn out is massive. Some may be down to any empathy being torn out but we actually have a great Conservative LA. When I first started as a SW after uni I was very self rightous (like others on this thread) and believed Tories and cuts bad, Labour good. But we have loads of money and funding for our dc. Our councillors are great. I coordinate a group for care leavers and we regularly have them attend to hear the YPs issues. They go to the council chambers and join in with debates and the councillors attend our care leavers christmas dinner that they fund for our YP. Our case loads increased dramatically with unaccompanied asylum seekers and the rates of dc in care over lockdown. Funding for 3 more workers was approved within 6 months. I genuinely can't complain at all.

@lifeturnsonadime

I think this thread is astonishing. No one has learnt from Brexit that assuming a faux moral high ground puts the electorate off rather than encourages their vote.

Party Gate is a scandal. But the likes of Starmer, Lammy and Raynor are telling massive lies when they say that being a woman includes people who are not human females.

They deserve what they get when they fail to oust the Conservatives despite the fiascos of the last few years.

@lifeturnsonadime Totally agree with this!

@DragonOverTheMoon

I'm not saying people don't use food banks. What I am saying is that lots of people use them and they don't need them. They're a bonus to an otherwise miserable food shop. I'm not denying there are issues, but they are not like how it's made out in this thread or by people taking pot shots. I see first hand, I give out food bank voucher fgs. People are not starving like the poor in third world countries. It's hyperbole to say that they are.

These issues are not as important to me as womens rights.

I see it first hand too. I absolutely disagree that people don't need the food banks. Many people are absolutely ficking desperate right now, whether you see it or not.

If you choose to prioritise women's rights in the way that you vote, then that's entirely your call. That's how democracy works. However, your choice doesn't change the reality of what's actually happening out there.

Your reality Alexa, that you're chosing to use as a weapon against those who don't hold your values.